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Topic: What does D.DY mean in the middle of a name? (Read 1712 times)
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lozzab
RootsChat Member
Posts: 189
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Hi all,
Recently I had a photo of my g-g-g-grandmother's grave sent to me from Sydney. the inscription had her name as "Bridget D.DY TOWNSEND" died 60 years old. I have not seen the D.DY on any of her other records. does anybody have any idea what it means? She was either born in Kilkenny or in Sydney to an Irish father - I can't confirm yet. her maiden name was READY.
Thanks, Loz
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philipsearching
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 619
I was a beautiful baby, - what went wrong?
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I was thinking the same as Mags - a middle name of Ready, or possibly Dandy.
If the carving is unclear, how about posting a picture - I'm sure Rootschat handwriting analysts would welcome something different as a challenge.
I would normally expect "D" to stand for Daughter or Died, but the DY as an abbreviation has me foxed.
All the best
Philip
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Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.ukTowcester/Weedon - ALLEN, BASFORD, MAY Fakenham - WILLIAMSON Hempton - WRIGHT, LOVELL Bethnal Green - MONKS and LARCHER Southwark - MOUNT, BOWBRICK Clonakilty to Southwark - CRISPIN Lambeth - LYON Hoxton - WALTERS Gwennap - JAMES, GRAY, TREWARTHA Antrim - CORDNER, SANDYS Peru - SOTELO, MOREY, BASELLI |
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trish251
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9162
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Hi Loz
I have no idea what the D.DY may mean - but wondered if you have checked the NSW births for your gggg. There are a couple of Bridget Readys
V1826822 125/1826 READY BRIDGET JOHN ELIZABETH
V18553102 72/1855 READY BRIDGET PATRICK MARGARET
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/searchHistoricalRecords.htm
(The latter two names are the parents)
The only death seems to be this one
2990/1887 TOWNSEND BRIDGET RICHARD DIED ST PETERS
The age being correct for the 1826 birth, but not the father's name?. Given that there is no mother's name, there may be an incorrect index (or the informant did not know the names).
If this was the marriage
V1847559 32C/1847 TOWNSEND JAMES TEADY BRIDGET MN
I note it was in St Peter's at Cooks River. There is a book available on this Graveyard & it says Bridget, James and son Henry Richard are there. It gives the age of Bridget as 69 (which doesn't seem to fit?) or could perhaps be a badly written 60?
The church also has a website & perhaps they would be able to verify the transcription for you (if it is this church). They have a specific email for graveyard history queries.
www.cooksriver.net
Trish
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« Last Edit: Tuesday 11 October 05 22:38 UTC (UK) by trish251 »
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lozzab
RootsChat Member
Posts: 189
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Hi, thanks for all you thoughts.
I thought she was the Bridget Ready born 1826 to John and elizabeth. I have gor a copy of the marriage cert. to James Townsend but unfortunately it did not list the parents names. I also got a copy of the death cert. which says that she died at 69 and father was richard (no mother's name listed). it was the historian at St. Peter's Cook's River that kindly sent me the phot of the gravestone. The D.DY is very clear and it also clearly says she was 60 years old when she died not 69.
I am wondering if she is indeed the daughter of John and Elizabeth. John was an Irish convict transported and his mother was also a convict. John and Elizabeth split just after the second child was born and Elizabeth remarried and had more children. As such their daughter Bridget would not really have known her father. From some info recieved there was a lot of animosity. Do you think it is possible that either the mother told Bridget some untruths about her origins or that Bridget herself may have been trying to cover up her past??
I know with my own grandmother - she was given up as a baby and her marriage cert. lists incorrect details of her parents.
does anyone have any ideas what else I can do to try to solve this mystery??
Thanks again,
Loz
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Rogers, Mason, Hawkes, Baldwin, Taboudeux, Lee, Steeden, Wilson, Armstrong, Battley, Johnstone, Dailey, Birmingham, Lancaster,Field, Rainford, Hill, Adams, Cassidy.
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trish251
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9162
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Hi Loz
In the Cooks River book it gives the age of Elizabeth as 69, from their register, so that is probably where the mistake was made as the civil register is no doubt a copy of the church register. It is also possible that the stonemason made a mistake so becomes tricky to determine her correct birth year.
It is quite possible that Bridget did not know the truth of her heritage - until well into the 20th century people hid their convict origins. Who was Elizabeth's second husband? Perhaps Bridget thought he was her father?
Have you asked the St Peter's historian what he thinks the D.DY may be?
It is surely an interesting church and graveyard. I have some family there as well and visited when last in Sydney. Half of the graves are gone (the land being taken over for a school and highway) so you were lucky your grave was still there. Mine was very worn with inscriptions almost impossible to read - which was why I bought the book.
Trish
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lozzab
RootsChat Member
Posts: 189
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Hi Trish,
I did ask the historian what the D.D.Y may mean and she said she had never seen it before either. I was surprised when she told me that the grave was still there and sent the photo down. I haven't been able to see it for myself as yet, as I live in Melbourne. I have actually sent off for the book.
If I can ask you another question - do you have any idea how you find out if someone left a will and how do you obtain a copy? I wish they had have listed the mothers/wives names properly on the marriage and death certificates - I have come across so many with only the father's details - it is frustrating!
thanks,Loz
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Rogers, Mason, Hawkes, Baldwin, Taboudeux, Lee, Steeden, Wilson, Armstrong, Battley, Johnstone, Dailey, Birmingham, Lancaster,Field, Rainford, Hill, Adams, Cassidy.
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trish251
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9162
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Hi Loz
It would be nice if all the information was always there 
Sadly, with death certificates especially, it is not known. I have found my marriage certificates from Qld - post 1860s are usually complete with parents, whereas some NSW ones from later have only the name of the bride and Groom - I really don't know why??
Access to wills is different depending on the state. Assuming you are interested in NSW, it may mean a trip to Sydney - or alternatively a researcher to find same for you.
At state records (archives) there are some will indexes online - but most are offline.
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/indexes_online_3357.asp
The index online is 1880 to 1923 - there are details on the site re access to other years.
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/deceased_estate_files_4667.asp
None of your Townsends appear to be in this index.
Given that Bridgets father is listed as Richard - on her death certificate, perhaps she was born in Ireland? Immigration records may help. Was there any indication on her death certificate re time in Australia?
Trish
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stonechat
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1579
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Trish
With apologies to the starter of this thread
One of my ancestors is listed in
The index online is 1880 to 1923
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/deceased_estate_files_4667.asp
Is there some way I can get a copy of this
The relevant entry reads
HOLMES G W Tamworth 29/08/1893 14/11/1893 3025 -
Thanks Bob
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Douglas, Varnden, Joy(i)ce Surrey, Clarke Northants/Hunts, Pullen Worcs/Herefords, Holmes Birmingham/USA/Canada/Australia, Jackson Cheshire/Yorkshire, Lomas Cheshire, Lee Yorkshire, Cocks Lancashire, Leah Cheshire, Cook Yorkshire, Catlow Lancashire NOTE I have moved my website to http://www.cotswan.com |
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trish251
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9162
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Hi Bob
According to the website - the only way to get a copy is to be in the reading room - Are copies available from this index?
No, copies are not available from this index. Due to the physical size of some of the files, and because a number have not survived, copies can only be ordered in the reading room after viewing the records.
It is also worth reading some of the archive notes - as well as this file there are also probate files (not indexed online) which could also be of interest. I have a thought that copies of probate packages can be ordered - but I can't find any mention of this at the minute.
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/archives_in_brief_84_2145.asp#IndextoProbatepacket
A few suggestions - if you can't get to Sydney
- you could post a request on the aust emigrants board - looking for someone who goes to the archives
- email the archives to query whether a copy of the probate package can be obtained
- you could find a researcher (this link may help)
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/archives_in_brief_16_1902.asp
My NSW transcription agent goes to the archives - I have found him helpful and efficient. http://home.iprimus.com.au/lturtle/nsw_state_archives.htm He responds quickly to email queries and provides copies of probate packages/deceased estate files (for a fee of course)
good luck
Trish
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lozzab
RootsChat Member
Posts: 189
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Hi Chris,
Happy Easter to you too! I've got no closer to solving this mystery since I first posted this. I'm thnking that it may be one of those that i never will find out for sure.
thanks,
Loz
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Rogers, Mason, Hawkes, Baldwin, Taboudeux, Lee, Steeden, Wilson, Armstrong, Battley, Johnstone, Dailey, Birmingham, Lancaster,Field, Rainford, Hill, Adams, Cassidy.
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JAP
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5079
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Loz,
As someone said earlier, it would be great if you could post the photo of the gravestone ...
JAP
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lozzab
RootsChat Member
Posts: 189
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thanks everyone. I am posting a photo of the gravestone. I'm hoping it is clear enough.
Loz
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Rogers, Mason, Hawkes, Baldwin, Taboudeux, Lee, Steeden, Wilson, Armstrong, Battley, Johnstone, Dailey, Birmingham, Lancaster,Field, Rainford, Hill, Adams, Cassidy.
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Bridget_Ready_townsend2.jpg