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Topic: A mystery... (Read 274 times)
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Katie123
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 284
HUNTing down the past (haha - GENIUS)
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In my previous query, I was very kindly given the following:
Thomasine ROW dau of Perran & Mary Ann, 08th. March, 1835. Father - Labourer.
1841 Census - Marazion
Mary Rowe - 25
Thomasine - 5
John - 4
James - 2
I am assuming that the Thomasine in both of these is the same one.
In the 1881 Census, Thomasine is married to Joseph Phillips and they are living with their children in St. Ives. Also living with them is the widowed Mary Rowe, whose relationship to Joseph is 'mother' and whose occupation is sexton's wife. (Perhaps Perran was a sexton.) Mary is down as being born in Cornwall and is 72 years old.
However, I have just found them all in the 1851 Census, which is where I've become confused: it's all fine until we meet Mary, who is living with them.
She is down as Mary S. RALPH, who is a 54 year old widow. Her occupation is 'was servant' and she was born in Tavistock, Devon. She is the mother-in-law of Joseph Phillips.
This is where I'm confused! I know that the families in the two censuses are the same, as the names and ages match up. But I am very confused as to who Mary Rowe/Ralph is.
Any comments greatly appreciated!
Katie 
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Byrne (Wexford), Hogan (Wexford), Hunt (London & Sussex) and Leeson (Northampton)
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Arranroots
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 9358
~ Grand Aunt Jenny ~
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Hi Katie!
Does this help?
Death
Perran ROWE
Mar 1858
Penzance Vol 5c Page 26 [too early to give an age]
kind regards, Arranroots
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY, BOYLE (DUNDALK) |
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MaryA
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 7148
St Chads, Kirkby
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This doesn't really clarify but I assume you don't have them or you would have listed them - in fact re-reading I think it makes it worse!
1861
Court Cocking? St Ives
James Ralph Head M 60 Labourer Cornwall Helston
Mary Wife M 51 Devon Tavistock
Francis Son Unm 16 Baker Cornwall St Ives
Joseph Phillips Grandson 7 Scholar " "
Next house
Ann Baraguault? Head Unm 49 Labourer " " (name transcribed as Ann Bara Guamth)
George Lampkin Son Unm 21 Labourer " Maduz?
Thomasine Cogan Daur Unm 18" St Ives (name transcribed as Cogar - also coulg be Logan)
(I only mention this family because of the coincidence of the Thomasine name, maybe its popular in Cornwall and doesn't mean anything)
Two doors away
Joseph Phillips Head M 26 Carrier " "
Thomasine Wife M 24 " St Hilary
John Son 5 " St Ives
Isabille daur 2 " " (transcribed as Josabillo)
Mary E J " 4 months " "
RG9/1590 Penzance St Ives Folio 17 Page 32
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukLunt (Wavertree/West Derby), Forshaw (West Derby), Richardson (Knowsley), Kent (Cheshire), Cain (Hertfordshire, London), Larkins (Bedfordshire, London), Nunn (London), Lenton, Hillyard (Bedfordshire), Parle, Lambert, Furlong, Wafer (Wexford) Special separate interest in Longford (Blackrock, Dublin) |
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MaryA
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 7148
St Chads, Kirkby
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1871 There are two families nearby, maybe connected so I'll list them both
Back Street, St Ives
Hugh Sisley Phillips Head M 32 Carrier Cornwall St Ives
Martha Wife M 31 Carrier's Wife " "
Hugh Sisley Son 11 Miner " "
William Sisley Son 8 Scholar " "
John Son 5 " " "
Nicholas Son 4 " " "
Joseph Son 2 " "
3 Doors away - address Barnoon Hill
Joseph Phillips Head M 35 Carrier Cornwall St Ives
Thomasine Wife M 34 Wife " " St Hilliary
Joseph Son Unm 17 " St Ives
John S Son 14 Mason's Apprentice " "
Isabella S daur 11 Scholar " "
Mary E daur 9 " " "
Thomasine daur 8 " " "
Frances A daur 6 Scholar " "
William S Son 4 " "
Harriet H daur 1 " "
Mary S Ralph Mother in Law W 54 Formerly Servant Devon Tavistock
RG10/2334 Penzance St Ives Folio 80 Page 6
I can get copies of the scans if you want them.
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukLunt (Wavertree/West Derby), Forshaw (West Derby), Richardson (Knowsley), Kent (Cheshire), Cain (Hertfordshire, London), Larkins (Bedfordshire, London), Nunn (London), Lenton, Hillyard (Bedfordshire), Parle, Lambert, Furlong, Wafer (Wexford) Special separate interest in Longford (Blackrock, Dublin) |
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SheilaM
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1837
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Hi Katie
I hope this doesn't make the mystery worse but here goes. In 1861 there is:
Trenau, Perranuthnoe - RG9/1591 Folio 65 Page 1
Perran Rowe 54, b Marazion, Copper & Tin Miner
Mary Ann 41, b Ashburton, Devon
Tombasina 24, b Marazion
John 22, b Marazion, Seaman
William 18, b Marazion, Shoemaker
Frederick 13, b Marazion, Butcher App
Matthew 13, b Marazion, Dressing Ore
Thomas 9, b Marazion
_________________________________________
There is also living at Fore Street, Marazion - RG9/1591 Folio 53 Page 16
Perran Rowe 52, b Marazion, Ag Labourer
Mary 49, b Sancreed?, Cornwall
John 20, son, b Marazion, Ag Lab
Charles 8, son, b Marazion
In 1871 this Mary is down as Mary S.
Looking at the ages of the sons this family could well have had more children in between who were already married.
Hope I haven't confused you more. Good luck.
Sheila
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LANCS Rochdale: Sanderson, Burke. Crompton/Shaw: Robinson, Walkden, Swann
Oldham: Sandiford, Mitchell
STAFFS Willenhall/Cheslyn Hay: Stokes, Broom
SOMERSET: Bath: Broom/Hawkins/Plowman/Roberts/West
YORKS: Gibson, Helliwell
IRELAND: Burke, Holmes
USA/Canada: Sanderson
WILTSHIRE: Hawkins
All census information is Crown Copyright
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MaryA
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 7148
St Chads, Kirkby
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Well it seems to have clarified that there are two families with similar names and ages, its just down to Katie now to figure out which one is hers!
Mary
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukLunt (Wavertree/West Derby), Forshaw (West Derby), Richardson (Knowsley), Kent (Cheshire), Cain (Hertfordshire, London), Larkins (Bedfordshire, London), Nunn (London), Lenton, Hillyard (Bedfordshire), Parle, Lambert, Furlong, Wafer (Wexford) Special separate interest in Longford (Blackrock, Dublin) |
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gougy
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 881
My Gran c1932
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Enumeration District 3
Civil Parish of St. Hilary Marazion
Book 2 Folio 48 Page 20
Mount Pleasant Square,1
Mary Rowe,25 In county,
Thomasine Rowe 5,In county,
John Rowe,4 In county,
James Rowe,2 In county,
Elizabeth Stodden, 25 In county,
I have Joseph Phillips' wife Thomasine as born c. 1835 St Hilary, and mother Mary born c.1810-17 depending on which census you take. These ages fit the bill. Perhaps the husband is already dead at this point and Mary later remarried to James Ralph, although I can't find a marriage on FreeBMD that suits.
Joseph Phillips bc1835, John Phillips bc 1833 and Hugh Sisley Phillips bc. 1839 were brothers. I have slogged through their respective families over the past few months - with an abundance of help from Kris and all you other Rootschatters  - Happy to pass on my research to you Katie, so PM me
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Sussex: Lishers of Sompting, Cunninghams of Houghton, Hammonds of Angmering, Humphrey, Hambleton, Ayling, Pope, Gent London: Le Franc, Watson, Read Cornwall: Phillips of St. Ives, Chappells of Penwith Ireland: O'Connors of Co. Clare Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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