Frances ?

[avm228]

Update: however at the marriage of Sarah Gilbert in Sep 1847, again in the same church, he is NOT shown as deceased!

That doesn't mean that she said he was alive - it's neutral on the point.  The question was not always asked, and the information not always volunteered.  There was no requirement for the minister or registrar to ascertain or record whether the father was alive or not.

[Greaves]

Thanks - I'm learning. I have sent for the death certificate, so hopefully that will clarify matters.

[davidft]

As discussed in the PM the records I found today

Frances Favell and family

(NB the spelling of Favel varies in the records so I have used what is recorded hence the variations)

Baptisms at St Mary Magdalene, Brampton, Hunts

31 March 1799 Frances Favell daughter of Stephen (labourer) and Sarah baptised

5 February 1797 John son of Stephen (labourer) and Sarah baptised
6 December 1801 Mary Favel daughter of Stephen (labourer) and Sarah baptised
22 July 1804 Rebecca Favil daughter of Stephen (labourer) and Sarah baptised
27 July 1807 William Favell son of Stephen (labourer) and Sarah baptised. (William was buried 19 August 1811)
14 February 1813 Maria Favell daughter of Stephen (labourer) and Sarah baptised
Maria was the last of their children baptised at Brampton.

Marriages at St Mary Magdalene, Brampton, Hunts

12 November 1796 Stephen Favell of Graffham (sic) and Sarah Smart of this parish were married. Witnesses: Stephen Favell* and James Alexander. * Probably the grooms father.

I did not find a baptism for Stephen at Grafham (correct spelling).  I now see the 1851 census says he was from Great Staughton. A tree has his parents as Stephen and Mary and born about 1770 and there is a baptism on familysearch for 9 September 1770 that matches this. (There is a possible marriage in 1761 on familysearch and burials for Mary possibly in 1817 and  Stephen senior possibly in 1818 – but I have not see the originals to vouch for them).

Sarah Smart and Family

25 August 1776 baptism of Sarah Smart at Brampton, daughter of Samuel and Alice Smart (their last child of many, alas I did not note the names of Sarah’s siblings).

Sarah’s parents were married as follows: 30 May 1758 Samuel Smart of Alconbury, Shepherd and Elizabeth Teat (banns say Alice) of this parish (Brampton), spinster, were married. Witnesses Thos Pannell , Pack Mash (sic) (Don’t know who Pack Mash was but he appears a lot so probably a church warden.

Burials

Stephen Favel buried 27 June 1860 aged 88 (estimated birth 1772) at Grafham All Saints
Sarah Favel buried 8 February 1860 aged 87 (estimated birth 1773 ties in with 1776 baptism) at Grafham All Saints
Samuel Smart buried 23 August 1801 aged 67 (estimated birth 1734) at St Mary Magdalene, Brampton
Alice Smart buried 5 February 1809 aged 74 (estimated birth 1735) at St Mary Magdalene, Brampton

Hope that helps

[Greaves]

A little update now that I have received some certificates back from the GRO.

The suggestion that my Great Great Grandfather James Gilbert was born Q1 1839 at St Saviours, Surrey has proved incorrect, as whilst the certificate names the father as James Gilbert, he is listed as a Hostler. Even more problematically the mother is not Frances, but Jane Gilbert (nee Smith). So the search for the DOB and baptism of James, born c1839 in Bermondsey goes on.

The death certificate of his father, my Great Great Great Grandfather James Gilbert is more positive, listing the date and place of death as 8 May 1845 at 24 Georges Place. He is down as a carpenter which makes sense and the informant is his wife Frances Gilbert.

Similarly the death certificate for Frances Britten states that she died 2 Feb 1871 at 24 Georges Place. It goes on to state that she was the widow of Thomas Britton, a railway labourer.

Since then I have found a possible death for Thomas Britton (Q2 1855 Wandsworth 1d 279), which I will need to check out. There is even a possible marriage for Thomas Britton (Q4 1849 Lambeth 4 301), though I am more wary of this as I can't find a matching entry for Frances.

So some progress, but as always further suggestions are happily received.