Author Topic: Ann BLACKLEY/RAMSAY born abt 1845 Paisley  (Read 6589 times)

Offline fred2derf

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Ann BLACKLEY/RAMSAY born abt 1845 Paisley
« on: Monday 07 April 14 12:01 BST (UK) »
Another series of puzzles from one of my direct lines.

1892  DEATHS in the District of Paisley in the County of Renfrew
No. 536 
Isabella RAMSAY  Widow of
1st John Blackley  Mason Journeyman 
2nd Francis Ramsay  Farmer
1892 May Sixteenth  12 h. noon  23 Broomlands Paisley  F 91 years
Thomas McGuire  Farmer (dec.)  Mary McGuire M.S. Ellist (dec.)
Senile decay as Certified by John Holms M.D.
Catherine McNaughton  Daughter (Present)
1892 May 17th at Paisley  Hugh Allison  Registrar

1861
Civil Parish: Paisley High Church
County: Renfrew
Address: 57 Broomlands Street
Isabella Blackley  Head 56  Ireland
Mary  dau 26  Mill worker  Ireland
Isabella  dau 25  Mill worker  Ireland
Sarah  dau 23  Mill worker  Ireland
Catherine  dau 21 Mill worker  Ireland
Ann  dau 15  Mill worker  Paisley

David BECKETT & Ann RAMSAY
Marriage: 31 Dec 1866  High Church Paisley, Renfrew

Jane Beckett
Birth Date: 4 Aug 1866  High Church Paisley, Renfrew
David Beckett & Ann Blackley   

James Beckett ?

Sarah Beckett
Birth Date: 2 Nov 1869  Bridgeton, Glasgow, Lanark
David Beckett & Ann Ramsay

1871
Civil Parish: Paisley High Church
Address: 57 Broomlands Street
Francelia B??  57, born Ireland <--- Isabella Blackley
Mary G  34, Mill Weaver born Paisley [Ireland]
-- who is this ? <--- Catherine McNaughton
Ann Bechett  24 daughter, born Paisley
Bechett  11 granddaughter born England <--- Isabella Blackley
Farrie Bechett  8 granddaughter born England <--- Jessie Blackley
James Bechett  3 grandson born Glasgow 
Sarah Bechett  1 granddaughter born Glasgow
 


Ann's marriage lists her father as Robert Ramsay and her mother as Isabella Ramsay M.S. McGuire. 

No second marriage has been found for Isabella to a Francis/Robert Ramsay.

No birth/baptism has been found for Ann.

Daughter Jane Beckett has not been found in 1871 and no death has been found.

Ann has not been found in 1851 or 1881 or later and no death has been found.

I'd appreciate some help filling in some of those gaps.

Thanks,

Fred

PS. Some have wondered if I'm doing research on behalf of others. I'm not. All queries relate to my
extended tree.  My great-great-grandparents came from Ireland, Scotland, England and Germany.

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Ann BLACKLEY/RAMSAY born abt 1845 Paisley
« Reply #1 on: Monday 07 April 14 13:13 BST (UK) »
Hi Fred

Just extending those branches as you say...

James Beckett, son of David and Ann https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F7M5-DXB

Looks like the Becketts headed off to the US c. 1873:

1880 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MWVQ-K4N?cc=1417683
1900 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M9N4-D18?cc=1325221

Possible daughter Elizabeth b. 1874 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V1M5-VCY but had died by the 1880 census? Added: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JX45-XJ5

A further death in 1873 for a first born David https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JFH3-DYW Death reg for 9 month old David available to view on Family Search. Next David born in Nov. 1875?. This will help when trying to narrow down the dates if you want to search for the shipping entry.

Monica  :)
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: Ann BLACKLEY/RAMSAY born abt 1845 Paisley
« Reply #2 on: Monday 07 April 14 13:48 BST (UK) »
This looks like Isabella with her children in 1851...without an Ann and showing very much as Blackly:

Isabella Blackly 48 Washer Woman
Thomas Blackly 21, iron moulder
Mary Blackly 19 warehouse sewster
Isebella Blackly 17 Shread Twiner (thread?)
Sarrah Blackly 15 Weavers Assistant
Cathren Blackly 13 House Servant

Address: 5 Love Street, Paisley North

This entry doesn't show on FreeCen unfortunately to be able to check Isabella's marital status.

Monica

Added: Fred, just seen previous info on the family posted. See you already have this entry. Puzzle about Ann. I would have a question mark in my head as to whether she was actually Isabella's daughter...
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: Ann BLACKLEY/RAMSAY born abt 1845 Paisley
« Reply #3 on: Monday 07 April 14 14:34 BST (UK) »
Regarding the missing Jane Beckett https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ42-K79, first born to David and Ann, have you checked the following entries:

1867 Jane BICKITT aged 2 Bridgeton Glasgow
1869 Jane Scott BICKETT aged 3 Milton Glasgow

Also outside of Glasgow:
1867 Jane BICKET aged 0 Ayr

Given the next two children, James and Sarah, were born in Bridgeton, that first entry would be the main one to check you would think.

Monica
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Offline fred2derf

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Re: Ann BLACKLEY/RAMSAY born abt 1845 Paisley
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 08 April 14 02:55 BST (UK) »
Hello Monica,

Thank you very much for taking the time to fill a few of the gaps for me.

Jane was born before the marriage hence mother's name as Blackley.

You are right about the probable death for Jane. I did more searching after posting and did notice several variations of the name Beckett I should also consider.

Not sure how I missed James.

I'm wondering why I can't find Isabella's second marriage. I have two more instances in this family where the death certificate lists a second marriage but I've been unable to find it.

Ann's marriage is not easy to read but it lists her father as Robert Ramsay and her mother as Isabella Ramsay M.S. McGuire. I can't read Robert's occupation. I started searching for a Francis and a Robert Ramsay and made no progress.

I searched again for a birth/baptism for Ann and had no luck.

This family and the Malcolms and the McLuckies will keep me busy for another seven years. Progress has been made and a bit more found this time around, which is good.

Regards,

Fred

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Re: Ann BLACKLEY/RAMSAY born abt 1845 Paisley
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 16 April 14 03:36 BST (UK) »
I can find no 2nd marriage for Isabella BLACKLEY nee McGUIRE despite her death certificate saying widow of 2nd Francis Ramsay - Farmer.

I can find not birth/baptism record for Ann born abt 1845. That could be because her parents were not married. It could also explain why Ann used Blackley for the birth of daughter Jane. Why would Ann then choose to use Ramsay when she married? Would that mean her mother actually married between 4 Aug 1866 and 31 Dec 1866?  Or could it mean Ann was baptised as Ramsay between those dates?

Ann's marriage lists her father as a Robert Ramsay - Clerk (factory) Deceased - is that fact or fiction? Ann had left Scotland long before her mother's death in 1892. The informant was married sister Catherine McNaughton (There is a puzzle with her two ? marriages also to be solved).

So are Francis the farmer and Robert the clerk both fictitious characters?

Fred

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Ann BLACKLEY/RAMSAY born abt 1845 Paisley
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 16 April 14 13:23 BST (UK) »
No new finds, Fred  :-\

Mother Sarah only ever seems to show as Blackley in censuses up to her death registrations which includes a second married name of Ramsay.

Ann Blackley/Ramsay only pops up in 1861. No sign of her in 1851 under any surname is there?

I would be thinking whether she could be grandchild to Sarah...but then where was she in 1851  :-\

Did the Blackley children when they married only ever show their mother as Blackley/McGuire? Sometimes when mother remarried it might show as Sarah Ramsey, previously Blackley, M.S. McGuire. Guess also the surname of RAMSAY never came up in the extended family's children's  names?

Monica
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Offline fred2derf

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Re: Ann BLACKLEY/RAMSAY born abt 1845 Paisley
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 17 April 14 01:55 BST (UK) »
Hello Monica,

You mean mother Isabella.  That one and Jessie are names that run in 5 generations. No sign of Ramsay as a middle name for any descendants. McGuire is sometimes Maguire as in two extracted records:

Isabella Maguire Blackley  bap. 2 Oct 1859  Liverpool, Lancashire
Thomas Blackley & Janet

Isabella Maguire Blackly  born 6 Aug 1859  bap. 2 Oct 1859  St Peter Liverpool, Lancashire

Ann still not found in 1851. I only have this for 1861 so perhaps I should get the image:

1861
Civil Parish: Paisley High Church
County: Renfrew
Address: 57 Broomlands Street
Isabella Blackley  Head 56  Ireland
Mary  dau 26  Mill worker  Ireland
Isabella  dau 25  Mill worker  Ireland
Sarah  dau 23  Mill worker  Ireland
Catherine  dau 21 Mill worker  Ireland
Ann  dau 15  Mill worker  Paisley


Thomas married in 1852 and it confirms what we know with another variation of the name:

Thomas BLAIKLEY
Spouse: Janet NEIL 
Marriage: 7 Aug 1852  High Church Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
Husband age at Marriage: 22    
Wife age at Marriage: 23

No. 1087  1852 Aug 7 
Thomas Blaikley  22  Iron moulder  5 Love St  Middle Parish Paisley
Janet Neil  23  10 Wellmeadow  High Parish Paisley 
2 Proclamations  Aug 8  Aug 15   Fee 4/-

Daughter Mary didn't marry.

1901
Registration Number: 573/1
Registration District: Paisley
Civil Parish: Paisley
County: Renfrewshire
ED: 1
Roll: CSSCT1901_204
Household schedule number: 78
Address: 23 Broomlands
Mary Blackley  Head 72  Annintant  Ireland

She died in 1915:

Page 64
1915  DEATHS in the District of Johnstone & Elderslie in the County of Renfrew
No. 192 - Mary Jane Blackley (Single) - 1915 October Fifteenth 2h 5m P.M.  Kuranda Roundhill Drive Elderslie - F - 84 years - John Blackley  Master Mason (Deceased)  Isabella Blackley  M.S. MacGuire (Deceased) - Broncho Pneumonia 7 days as certified by Thomas Watt  M.B.C.M. - John Lang  Grand Nephew -  1915 October 16th at Johnstone  Wm. G. Fleming  Registrar


Offline fred2derf

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Re: Ann BLACKLEY/RAMSAY born abt 1845 Paisley
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 17 April 14 02:10 BST (UK) »
Daughter Isabella born Ireland abt 1835 not found after 1861.  Can't be Ann's mother.

Daughter Sarah married in 1861:

Page 37
1861  Marriages in the Parish of High Church in the Burgh of Paisley
No. 73  1861 August Eighth  54 Wellmeadow Street Paisley  After Banns according to the forms of the Congregationalists
[signed] William Jack  Grocer  Bachelor - 26 - 33 George Street Paisley - Alexander Jack  Weaver  (deceased)  Isabella Jack M.S. Graham (deceased)
[signed] Sarah Blackley  Mill Worker  Spinster - 21 - 57 Broomlands Street Paisley - John Blackley  Mason  Isabella Blackley M.S. McGuire
[signed] John H. Lochore ?  Minister of the Tabernach, Paisley
[signed] Robert Young, Witness, [signed]  Mary Blackley, Witness
1861 August 13th ? at Paisley  John Mitchyers ? Assistant Registrar


Daughter Catherine married once or is it twice - yet another puzzle I've not posted yet:

Page 47
1864  Marriages in the Parish of High Church in the Burgh of Paisley
No. 93 - 1864 On the Fourteenth Day of October at 57 Broomlands Street Paisley
After Banns according to the forms of the United Presbyterian Church
Signed   Adam McNaughton  Teacher of English  Bachelor - 25 - Kerraithill / Ferraishill ? Bothwell - Adam McNaughton  Carpenter  Elizabeth McNaughton M.S. McLean -
Signed  Catherine Blackley - Spinster - 24 - Karraithill / Ferraishill ? Bothwell - John Blackley (Deceased)  Isabella Blackley M.S. McGuire -
Signed  R. P. ? Brown  Minister
Signed  Wm. McNaughton  Witness, Ann Blackley  Witness
1864 October 16th at Paisley  Denis ? Hearn ?  Registrar

So none of the marriages has the word 'formerly' or mentions the name Ramsay

One more interesting thing is that in the 1861 marriage father John is not listed as being deceased and in the 1864 marriage he is. There is this death that could be his but I don't know how it could be verified:

1864  BLACKLEY JOHN  M  PAISLEY MIDDLE CHURCH /RENFREW  573/3X 0015 No Image

I'll have to keep searching for Ann in 1851.

Fred