John William Tomkins

[K Rees]

I am researching the Samuel Tomkins and Elizabeth Ann Petch  family who married St. Saviour, Southwark. 25/2/1782. I see that one of the witnesses was John William Tomkins. Assuming that he was a brother, then he maybe a John William Tomkins who married Sarah Worsfold 21 Oct 1790 St. Mary, Newington, Southwark.

Has anyone knowledge of possible baptisms for children of John and Sarah Tomkins. It is possible that he was an accountant and the above Samuel, a banker. Elizabeth's parents were Dr. William Petch and Mary Ellis.

Keith     (Aus)

[Valda]

Hi

If they were a banking family then you would expect them to leave wills

Prerogative Court of Canterbury

Will of Samuel Tomkins, Banker of Lombard Street , City of London 02 February 1849 PROB 11/2088 

possible wills of interest

Will of Samuel Tomkins, Gentleman of Newington Butts , Surrey 23 April 1808 PROB 11/1478
Will of John William Tomkins of Walworth , Surrey Date 13 November 1817 PROB 11/1598 

It looks like John William may have been buried at Bunhill Fields non-conformist burial ground

Samuel may have been buried at Maze Pond, Southwark (Baptist)


Were the Tomkins you are interested in non-conformists?


Regards

Valda
 

[K Rees]

Thank you Valda, both for your quick response and assistance.

I did get the Will of Samuel Tomkins of Lombard Street, and I believe that his wife will be Eliza Alicia Smith. I am sure that there will be some tie in.

I will now get the Will of John William Tomkins.  I see that there is a child to John and Sarah Tomkins bp 17/10/1791 Pavement Chapel, New North Road, Independent, Hoxton. This is interesting as Samuel Tomkins and Elizabeth Ann Petch also have their chn baptised in this church from 1783 to 1790, then my Martha Lee Tomkins and the next sibling Samuel Tomkins are bp AllHollows, Bread Street.

There are people on ancestry.com who have a connection with a John William Tomkins b 1796, who marries a Maria Nutting. But they may have only a guess of his birthdate. I will try and contact them.

There is a Will on the internet for Elizabeth Ann Petch's mother Mary Ellis, which supplies a little information.

Rumours, which get stretched over the years, and twofold in the Colonies when someone is trying to impress; however, Elizabeth Ann Petch is suppose to be an illegit of George 111 and raised by the court doctor and lady-in-waiting. My research shows that she is the first named child of Dr. William Petch and a lady - Mary Ellis. She married the merchant Samuel Tomkins who visited George Court. Close, but not close enough yet for me. There was a portrait of Elizabeth Petch with a hand written document with some truths that I can now verify.

Keith Aus

[Valda]

Hi

Interestingly of all the male monarchs George III is the one that stands out as having a long lasting and happy marriage.

'George remarkably never took a mistress (in contrast with his grandfather and his sons), and the couple enjoyed a genuinely happy marriage'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_III_of_the_United_Kingdom


30th May 1809 St Mary Woolnoth City of London
Samuel Tomkins of this parish widower
Eliza Alicia Isabella Smith? spinster of the parish of St ?
married by licence, both signed
Witnesses Richard and Mary Ann Lea, W Willis and others I can't read

Baptisms at St Mary Lambeth
21st December 1814 born 27th November
Alicia Ame Tomkins parents Samuel Tomkins and Eliza Alicia Isabella, South Lambeth, father's occupation banker

followed by

William Groom baptised 23rd October 1816
Anne Lydia 25th November 1818
Mary Jane 25th January 1822

and John Newton baptised 24th August 1812

1841 census HO107 1083/5 folio 6
Albion Place Christchurch Southwark
Saml Tomkins 80 Banker not born Surrey
Alicia Tomkins 61 born Ireland?
John Newton Tomkins 25 Surgeon born Surrey
Wm Graham Tomkins 25 Engineer born Surrey
Ann Lydia Tomkins 20
Mary Jane Tomkins 20

adult ages on the 1841 census, those over 15, usually rounded down to the nearest 5

Gentleman's Magazine 1856
At Russell Place Fitzroy Square aged 79 Eliza Alicia Isabella widow of Samuel Tomkins esq

Monthly Magazine 1808
At St Mary Woolnoth Samuel Tomkins esq banker to Miss Alicia Smith only daughter of Admiral Smith


Regards

Valda

 
 
 

[K Rees]

Hi Valda,

Thank you for both your reference re- George 111 and secondly, your recommendation to go back and research for other Wills. I purchased a few Tomkins Wills and scored a couple of winners.

The Will of Samuel Tomkins prob 11/1610 (27 Aug 1817) of Carpenters Buildings, London Wall, proved 21 Nov 1818 is indeed my ancestor, and the Will mentions that his daughter Martha Rees was left things in trust (bp 10/12/1792 St. Mildred, Bread St). Samuel devised that he should be buried at Burnhill Fields. It is of interest that John William Tomkins (Senior) also requested that he be buried in the family ..... Burnhills Fields. This strongly suggests that the John William Tomkins who witnessed the wedding of Samuel Tomkins and Elizabeth Ann Petch, in 1782 at St. Saviour, Southwark, was indeed his brother. It also indicates that this family of Tomkins MAY HAVE originally centred around Southwark.

Martha and John Rees married in 1810, but as far as we know did not start producing offspring until 1820.  It is believed that they both continued their education.

Thank you

Keith Rees

[Valda]

Hi

Martha would have been 18 in 1810 and 28 in 1820. As a woman her education as such would have been sufficient at 18. With illness and death always hovering neither the rich nor the poor could afford to wait around in a marriage until the woman was 28 to begin having children.

Do you have any wills for Martha and her husband?


The memorial inscriptions at Bunhill were transcribed in 1869

http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/LGNL_Services/Environment_and_planning/Parks_and_open_spaces/City_Gardens/bunhill.htm


Regards

Valda

[K Rees]

Once again Valda, your assistance and opinions are welcome and most appreciated. I had also thought that 10 years was certainly a long gap from marriage in 1810, before the first known child Mary Ann Rees b.1 Apr 1820 George Court London and bp 23 Apr 1820 St. Benet Paul's Wharf. So maybe, I should look for additional children in London. Although, the Will of her father Samuel Tomkins is difficult to read, it does say that sons John and Samuel ... retain in trust for Martha Rees .. maybe it does say her son's use ... Thus, there looks like a son and I would say born c1810 in that case, when a newspaper article announced their marriage in London 1810.

John and Martha Rees left for Pembroke in 1820, where John practiced law and they had 5 more children. John's father David Rees of Haverfordwest died in 1837 leaving many farms. Unfortunately, John died the following year followed quickly by two of his brothers Lt. Willam Lee Rees and Dr. James Lee Rees. I traced Martha to St. Augustines Bristol in 1841 with the 3 youngest chn under the name Rus, before Martha emigrated to Aus in 1844.

I now believe that Martha's Will was sent back from Aus to be proved. So, I will need to see if there is a record of that. Martha died in Richmond, Melbourne 1865.

Keith

[Valda]

Hi

Have you searched the Welsh will database?

http://cat.llgc.org.uk/cgi-bin/gw/chameleon?skin=profeb&lng=en


The probate service holds all wills after 1858

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/1176.htm


Regards

Valda

[K Rees]

Once again thank you Valda.

I had a quick look throughthe HMCS for Martha, but now will look through the Welsh records.

We had previously looked at James Rees Administration Bond of 1838. This document also helped me start tracing the family line of the David Rees of Westbury Hill and his wife Esther Venables, as being my John's first cousin. A number of John's chn were also born at Westbury Hill.

Back to the Will of Samuel Tomkins, no the word I thought was son is "own". Martha was left five per cent which was to be put in trust by her cousins John and Samuel Tomkins, co execs
"for her use"

Keith