Mary Duguid & Hanie, Aberdeenshire

[RedMystic]

Clarifying what M.S. means is becoming more critical to this sleuth. Elizabeth Walker M.S. Barber is what is listed for Mary Duguid's mother. Others on the page also have the M.S. note.

In the record directly above, the mother's name Margaret Bartlett appears with occupation M.S. Smith; similarly in the mother's record immediately below Mary's is Jane Stuart M.S. Smith.

It doesn't seem likely that all of them were married before.[/s] Please ignore this comment. I'm a little dense, but I have figured it out.

It gets more complicated. Is this a coincidence?  The Barber family that Mary lived with had wife

Elizabeth W Walker
Birth 31 May 1809 in Tillymaud, Udny, Aberdeenshire, Scotland   
Death 29 Nov 1882 in  Brownhill, Monquhitter, Aberdeenshire, Scotland

who married Alexander Barber 21 Nov 1830.

Maybe, she is actually Mary Duguid's (b1828) mother.

However, it looks like Mary's father, William Duguid, also married an Elizabeth Walker. Ignore this too. This Elizabeth Walker was born the year before Mary, so can't be her mum.

See what I mean about needing some clarity regarding what M.S. means? It may be the telling detail. Thoughts?

[josey]

In the record directly above, the mother's name Margaret Bartlett appears with occupation M.S. Smith; similarly in the mother's record immediately below Mary's is Jane Stuart M.S. Smith.

Sorry I was confused  but I thought that clip was from a death certificate.

But what are the father's surnames on the Bartlett & Stuart entries? If Bartlett & Stuart, then the mothers' maiden surnames were Smith & Smith.

Is there any guidance on the SP site about abbreviations?
 

[RedMystic]

Sorry - now I've really confused you.   

The clip is from the death record from SP. 

The records above & below are for children who died from different, unrelated families.  Each father's name appears in full for all 3 records, then his occupation. It's only the mother's records that show maiden name followed by M.S. & a surname along with another surname (not the father's surname). suname that is the father's surname.

That was why I wondered if it meant "mother's surname" (thereby PERHAPS providing the surname of the deceased person's grandmother) .  I may really be gasping at straws here.

Where would I look for SP abbreviations?

[RedMystic]

Josey, it looks like you're on target with mother's maiden name  , but it's not making sense to me.

http://www.scotlandspeoplehub.gov.uk/research/deaths-1856-present.html

Based on this & what you've been trying to reinforce for me, Elizabeth Walker's (mother of illegitimate daughter Mary Duguid) maiden name is Barber.  So Elizabeth was a Walker when Mary was born, but had been a Barber?

Now, I must figure out a way to determine if Mary's mother was Elizabeth Walker who appears to have married Mary's father OR if she is Elizabeth Walker who married Alexander Barber in 1830.

Now I'm wondering if Mary's mother was sister to Alexander Barber who raised her.

Yikes - way too many permutations & combinations.

[RedMystic]

Now, I must figure out a way to determine if Mary's mother was Elizabeth Walker who appears to have married Mary's father OR if she is Elizabeth Walker who married Alexander Barber in 1830.

So here's where I'm ending up:
- Elizabeth Walker who married Mary's father is too young to have been her mother. She was born the year before Mary.
- Elizabeth Walker who married Alexander Barber in Nov 1830 appears to have been maiden name Walker, so likely not her for mother of Mary.

I've not been able to make a documented link so far, but I'm sensing that Elizabeth Walker (nee Barber) was likely sister to Alexander Barber & daughter to James Barber, both of whom were witnesses at Mary Duguid's son's baptism.

Whew! Still working to try to make sense of this one.

[josey]

- Elizabeth Walker who married Mary's father is too young to have been her mother. She was born the year before Mary.
- Elizabeth Walker who married Alexander Barber in Nov 1830 appears to have been maiden name Walker, so likely not her for mother of Mary.

I've not been able to make a documented link so far, but I'm sensing that Elizabeth Walker (nee Barber) was likely sister to Alexander Barber & daughter to James Barber, both of whom were witnesses at Mary Duguid's son's baptism.

Good logic, well done.

Still intrigued by the 4 entries for Alexander Cheyne's baptism......

[flst]

Hi,I've spent some time trying to make sense of your findings.Who was the informant on Mary Duguid's death certificate? I'm wondering how well they knew her.It may have been a slip of the tongue & they meant to say her mother was Elizabeth Barber nee Walker! I think that Elizabeth (wife of Alexander Barber) was a Walker. I note there are quite a few Barber households in the Brownhills area of Monquhitter.There is a Garden Barber married to Jane Walker, who was born in the parish of Udny (as was Elizabeth).It is possible they were sisters. Alexander & Garden appear to be sons of James & Christine Barber who are also at Brownhills in 1851.
flst

[flst]

In 1861 Alexander Cheyne is living at Brownhill & is a grandson of Alexander & Elizabeth Barber.Is this the proof you need?
flst

[RedMystic]

I'm wondering how well they knew her.It may have been a slip of the tongue & they meant to say her mother was Elizabeth Barber nee Walker! I think that Elizabeth (wife of Alexander Barber) was a Walker.
flst

Hi flst,

The informant was George Barber, neighbour - possibly the same George Barber who was in Alexander Barber / Elizabeth's home in 1841. I suspect he is their son, as Alexander / Elizabeth married in Nov 1830 & he was born in 1831.

Do you think a son could have made that error?  A recorder certainly could. 

I've guests coming for dinner, so must run for a few hours.

I'll get back to this as soon as I can.

BTW, I'm trying to ultimately find out what happened to Alexander Cheyne, but I'd also like to sort out his parentage. I've not had a lot of time today to look at SP - life is getting in the way.