Robert Forth 3rd regiment 1st Battalion Scots Fusilier Guards, cap badge

[km1971]

I had already heard about the officers’ costs; and I’m now wondering if the same parallel can be drawn in relation to the non-commissioned officers ?   

No, NCOs did not purchase their rank. However NCOs in the guards earned more than the same rank in a line regiment.

Ken

[Iain...]

Thanks Ken !   You must obviously be a historian ! 
I believe it was in this video that I understood that the payment system (and "promotion") was probably similar to all Royal guards.   One way to get their 'respect'!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4K3vjCprE8

[PaulBol]

Thanks all for the info.


Iain no the photo not of Robert its one i got off the web, was taken just after the Crimean war.

Robert severed with Scots Guards 17 year.  the Chelsea pension record give his physical description

I wonder if the Scots Guards archives have any photos of him in the 3rd regiment 1st Battalion Scots Fusilier Guards

     1833 13 Aug Age: 18

    Joined Scots Guards ( No 1758 ) 3rd regiment 1st Battalion Scots Fusilier Guards, height 5 foot 8 inches. In 1877, Queen Victoria, changed the regiment's name to the Scots Guards.

   


Military
    1841 2 Sep Age: 26
    Scots Fusilier Guards - Battalion from Wellington Barracks to the Tower,

    The London Times 2 September 1841 reported the changes of quarters in the Household Brigade, including the following: Scots Fusilier Guards - 1st Battalion from Wellington Barracks to the Tower,changes of quarters were a twice-yearly 1 March and 1 Sept

   


Military
    1841 Age: 26
    Wellington Barracks, St Margaret, Westminster

    Wellington Barracks, St Margaret, Westminster HO107/438/19/43/16 Robert Firth , 25, soldier, not born Middlesex

   


Residence
    1841 Age: 26
    St Margaret, Middlesex, England

    Age: 25

   


Military
    1850 Age: 35
    London

    Scots Guards Discharge - London 25 Nov 1850, Accidental injury unfit for service, height 5 foot 10 inches, & 1/8th

[heathgirl]

I have written to the Regimental Headquarters today to request the history of James Edward Heath born 1863, a relative discharged from 1st Scots Guards after seven years, 24 days, on Aug 2 1890 (this precise info came from his enlistment record as a Metropolitan Police man the same year). I have three general questions re the Scots Guards.James remained in the Reserve until 2nd Aug 1895. Would this indicate anything in regards to the discharge? I would also like to know if a soldier was allowed to marry and what preparation was required to enlist. He came from a humble background and I cannot find him in 1881. Thank you.

[km1971]

The standard enlistment at the end of the 19th Century was 12 years, comprising a period full-time in uniform followed by the remainder in the 1st Class Army Reserve. As a Reservist he would have been paid half-pay in exchange for attending a two week summer training. Reservists were liable to be recalled at the time of a general mobilization, as happened in 1899 (for the Boer War) and 1914. Reservists could extend their time in the AR by four years. Discharge happened at the end of his time as a Reservist. Reservists did not normally record the fact on census and BMD etc for example. So it is only his service record that tells you.

The normal split of 'with the colours' and the AR was seven and five years. 8 and 4 was also used, as was occasionally 3 and 9 years. A further complication was that the army could delay the transfer to the AR for one year if they were overseas.

If both the army and the man agreed he could extend his time as a full-time soldier to the full 12 years enlistment. In the case of the army the man needed to have been awarded two good conduct 'badges' - they were actually inverted chevrons - to show he had not been in trouble. Each GC badge gave the man one penny a day extra pay on top his basic pay of 1s 1d (13 pence).

The Scots Guards were in the Sudan in 1885. If your information does not include detais, you should check the medal rolls on Ancestry.

Regarding marriage, the army could not stop soldiers marrying when they were Home-based. However if they were sent on an overseas garrison deployment only wives on the marriage establishment would be allowed to go with him. Places on the marriage establishment were strictly limited, with only one place for ever 40 Privates. I do not know when it was introduced but before WW1 a man needed two GC badges and £5 in a Post Office savings account before permission was granted. So it was only available for men staying in uniform and not transferring to the Army Reserve.

Ken

[heathgirl]

Thank you for this interesting reply. Do you happen to know if there was something going on in the period of 1891 to 1895 where reserve Guards were needed? as he resigned from the Police in 1891 and returned to the Police in 1895.1895 was also when his obligation to the reserves ended.

[km1971]

Nothing that affected the Scots Guards until December 1895 when a small detachment were sent to fight in the Fourth Ashanti War.

If you are getting his record from their archivist it should say if he remained a Reservist in that period. He must have changed jobs. Normally public-paid jobs were happy to have Reservists. There is a picture of Liverpool (I think) policemen being recalled to fight in the Boer War.

Ken

[heathgirl]

thank you, just have to wait to see what the archivist replies!

[Regorian]

That magnificent photograph from 1856 is the new uniform and only lasted for one year. The subject serving 1833 to 1850 would have looked quite different. Google Scots Fusilier Guards (images) and the very first one is of the SFG parading before Queen Victoria and Prince Albert in front of Buckingham Palace in 1854 before embarking for the Crimean War.

European military uniforms changed a lot from the early 1840's. British and Russian infantry were still wearing the tight, high collared, tailed coats in 1854. Contact with the French in the Crimea led to the the new uniform as in the photograph. That double breasted jacket only lasted one year. It was replaced by a single breasted version. The 'French' uniform lasted until 1878 when a German style uniform was adopted. The British style pickelhaube can still be seen as worn by selected army bandsmen in 1914 uniforms and helmeted policemen. The U.S. army followed in parallel except for the dark blue instead of red.