Help please with EMILY and LAWRENCE GRAY

[Poppy Rose]

Hello Everyone

In late 1858 the miller of Sporle with Palgrave in Norfolk was taken to court for hare poaching by a local gamekeeper. The miller fearing he would be imprisoned made up a story for the court about the gamekeeper being very drunk and sleeping off the effects on the night the poaching crime had  taken place. The miller brought forward quite a few witnesses to this gamekeeper's drunken night. 

One of these witnesses was Emily the wife of Lawrence Gray, gypsy, who were camping next to the Elephant and Castle beerhouse in Sporle where all the supposed drinking took place during the night in question.

From the court case: Emily Gray's birth year was c.1830 and she had a son "about five". Lawrence Gray bought some poles from a woodman while in Sporle before the family moved onto Wormegay for a few days and then to Necton (both places still in Norfolk). The couple owned a horse and lived in a tent.

I am attempting to find something about Emily and Lawrence Gray. There was a baptism at Norwich of a Thomas, son of Lawrence Gray, tinman, and Emily Pinfold both of Pockthorpe in September 1849. I have a feeling this may be the couple but that baptism is all I can find. Has anyone come across this couple in the records? Are they in any census before or after 1858? Who were their parents?

Thank you for reading this. 

[Mabel Bagshawe]

This looks like them in 1861 - address given as "in tents" in Ipswich, Bridge ward, following entries for Whip St

Lawrence Grey    30 - machine repairer, b  Borin [?] Norfolk
Emily Grey    25 - b Norwich
Thomas Grey    12 - b Norwich

RG 9,  1162, 70, 33

There is a large Pinfold family in the next tent

[Mabel Bagshawe]

the Pinfold contngent are headed by Chares and Ruth. following them back I see no Emily, however they have a daughter Matilda, and here she is in 1891, in a group of Pinfold caravans

Matilda Pinfold    68 - widow b London
Emily Pinfold    59 - sister, widow b Cratfield, Suffolk
Alfred Pinfold    28 - nephew b Poolwick, Norfolk
William Pinfold    35 - nephew b Yarmouth
   
RG12, 1537, 72, 6

i know gypsy and Traveller women in those days often kept their family surname and/or switched at will with the husband/partners, so wonder if this is her

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Think I have fond most of these on 1911 together, although using different surnames that pop in with others living with various Pinfolds/Penfolds across the censuses, such as Neale and Lee

[Poppy Rose]

Thank you Mabel Bagshawe 

I have just found Charles, a brazier, and Ruth Pinfold in the 1851 census with 12 of their children. I notice there is a four year gap between son Charles aged 22 and son Gordon aged 18. Emily Pinfold would have been around twenty in 1851. This family look as if they had more or less settled in Norwich from about 1836. The younger seven children were all born in Norwich according to the census and some were attending school.

As Emily Pinfold would have been around ten in 1841. Did she appear on the 1841 census with Charles and Ruth?

 

[Poppy Rose]

Have just found an Emily Pinfold baptised in Cratfield, Suffolk, in September 1826 daughter of Charles and Ruth on Familysearch.

[CitizenSmith]

Hi Poppy Rose

I've got a copy of the baptism entry for Emily, taken from a transcription of the original parish register held at the Society of Genealogists, London. It reads:

Emily Pinfold dau of Charles and Ruth Pinfold
Of Silver Lace Green, Cratfield, Brasier
Bp 24 September 1826, Cratfield, Suffolk
‘Born 19 inst.’

Do you have a full transcription of the Thomas baptism? If not, I have that too.

I've also got some notes about Emily and Lawrence and their son Thomas, collected from the Gypsy Collections at the University of Liverpool. Also about the Grays. They also have some photos there of the Pinfolds, including Emily, I think. I'll post my notes here shortly.

I don't have Pinfold or Gray blood myself but they married into my Smith family so I've done some research on them.

Sharon

[An65]

I have a Lawrence Thorpe c,16.9.1821 s/o Thomas Thorpe & Susan of Little Gransden which I consider might be a possible baptism for Lawrence Grey. If correct, Thomas and Susan also had two children called Emry/Emery in 1817 and 1820. This Thomas was bapt 15.7.1798 Great Shelford Cam, son of Francis and Mary which I think probably corresponds to "Fowk and Mary" of the old Trees written by the 19th century gypsiologists. I believe Fowk/Francis Grays wife Mary was a Thorpe, which is why the children used the Thorpe name. Thomas's sister Mary Ann Gray married Charles Gray of Teversham in 1808 at Willingham by St Ives as a Thorpe. Similarly her sister Silva/Sylvesta married Stephen Loveridge aka John Smith aka James Thorpe in 1813 at Haddenham Cam, with her giving her name as Sylvesta Thorpe and he as John Smith. I must stress this is my theory and that it is not proven fact.