Author Topic: Market gardener Patman in Grantham  (Read 6416 times)

Offline matildakin

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Market gardener Patman in Grantham
« on: Tuesday 03 February 09 14:10 GMT (UK) »
My 89-year-old mother-in-law would be quite interested in hearing from any descendants of the Patman family who ran a market garden in Grantham.

George Patman (born 1848 in Grantham) married Louisa Evinson (born circa 1856). Their children were:
- George Thomas Patman (b. 1875) who achieved a degree of fame as an organist under the surname Pattman.
- Louise Patman (b. 1879) who married Robert Jesse Rodd (b. 1882). Children included Eric and Bobby.
- Frederick Arthur Patman (b. 1883) who married Florence Mabel New (b. 1887). Children were Ellaline and Kathleen.
- Elsie Victoria Patman (b. 1887) who may have married John Robert Scoffield and/or a man named Blunt. Blunt children were Vera Patricia and Peter.
- Roy Patman (b. 1891)
- Rollo Patman (b. 1895)

Attached is an undated picture of Arthur and his father George.

Thanks.

mat

Offline Sarndra

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Re: Market gardener Patman in Grantham
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 27 February 10 02:04 GMT (UK) »
Howdy.

In the course of your research, you haven't come across an A R [possibly Archibald Robert] PATMAN, 2nd Lieut. in the RGA [Royal Garrison Artillery] have you?

I'm trying to do some research on this fellow for someone.

Cheers
Sarndra
http://www.sarndra.com
http://www.invokinglibitina.blogspot.com/
ARBUCKLE; BAILEY; BLACKADDER; BURNS; DARBON/DARBEN; DAVIDSON; ERSKINE; EVANS; GUEST; HANNAH; HAMILTON; HAND; HOLDER; JOHNSTON; KENNEDY; KITCHENER; LAVERIE; LAWSON; LEES;  LEESE; LOAN; LODGE; MACE; MCCOOK; MCGUIRE; MCKAI/MCKAY; MCLEES; PAWSON; RUSS; STEVENSON; TOUGH; VALE; WERT; WHEELER; WORT;

Offline Sarndra

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Re: Market gardener Patman in Grantham
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 27 February 10 03:12 GMT (UK) »
Howdy.

In the course of your research, you haven't come across an A R [possibly Archibald Robert] PATMAN, 2nd Lieut. in the RGA [Royal Garrison Artillery] have you?

I'm trying to do some research on this fellow for someone.

Cheers
Sarndra
http://www.sarndra.com
http://www.invokinglibitina.blogspot.com/

Further research shows Archibald Robert PATMAN born 21 Jan 1892 and died 1977 Barnstaple, Devonshire.

S
ARBUCKLE; BAILEY; BLACKADDER; BURNS; DARBON/DARBEN; DAVIDSON; ERSKINE; EVANS; GUEST; HANNAH; HAMILTON; HAND; HOLDER; JOHNSTON; KENNEDY; KITCHENER; LAVERIE; LAWSON; LEES;  LEESE; LOAN; LODGE; MACE; MCCOOK; MCGUIRE; MCKAI/MCKAY; MCLEES; PAWSON; RUSS; STEVENSON; TOUGH; VALE; WERT; WHEELER; WORT;

Offline matildakin

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Re: Market gardener Patman in Grantham
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 27 February 10 14:32 GMT (UK) »
Hi, Sarndra! Sorry to tell you that Archibald is not one of my lot and I don't recall ever having come across him.  I'll keep an eye out.  Good luck with your research.

mat

CORRECTION:  Elsie Victoria Patman was adopted by her Scoffield neighbours and first married Frank Percival Jones by whom she had daughter Vera Patricia.  Elsie later married Thomas S. R. Blunt by whom she had son Peter.


Offline Sarndra

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Re: Market gardener Patman in Grantham
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 27 February 10 21:09 GMT (UK) »
Hi, Sarndra! Sorry to tell you that Archibald is not one of my lot and I don't recall ever having come across him.  I'll keep an eye out.  Good luck with your research.

mat

CORRECTION:  Elsie Victoria Patman was adopted by her Scoffield neighbours and first married Frank Percival Jones by whom she had daughter Vera Patricia.  Elsie later married Thomas S. R. Blunt by whom she had son Peter.

Thanks so much for replying Mat!

I'll plod along and see what pans out.

Much appreciated
Sarndra
ARBUCKLE; BAILEY; BLACKADDER; BURNS; DARBON/DARBEN; DAVIDSON; ERSKINE; EVANS; GUEST; HANNAH; HAMILTON; HAND; HOLDER; JOHNSTON; KENNEDY; KITCHENER; LAVERIE; LAWSON; LEES;  LEESE; LOAN; LODGE; MACE; MCCOOK; MCGUIRE; MCKAI/MCKAY; MCLEES; PAWSON; RUSS; STEVENSON; TOUGH; VALE; WERT; WHEELER; WORT;

Offline vintagesunbeam

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Re: Market gardener Patman in Grantham
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 28 October 12 22:10 GMT (UK) »
Hi Mat

I've just come across the message you posted three years ago on the Patman family! I'm afraid I don't have any information but I can throw some light on Arthur's story which may be of interest.

My brother and I are researching early WW1 motorcycle despatch riders, specifically a small number of men who were recruited into the Royal Engineers early in August 1914. The selection process was very unorthodox - they were selected simply because they could ride a motorbike, and most of them brought their own motorcycles (which the Army paid them for). Although they had no military training whatsoever they were all promoted to the rank of Corporal because their job was to deliver messages to officers and military law forbade private soldiers from addressing officers. Many of those recruited were graduates or undergraduates at elite colleges and historians have remarked on how much they had to use their own initiative in the first few weeks of the war.

Initially there was no trench fighting - the German Army invaded Belgium and France in overwhelming numbers and simply swept the small British force away. They retreated southwards ending up near Paris and the despatch riders had a vital role in keeping the generals in touch with all their units and preventing the retreat from becoming a rout. By December 1914 the war settled down into stalemate with both sides dug into trenches which stretched from Switzerland to the sea - many of the men who had been recruited in August then cast about and applied for commissions, often in other units such as the Royal Flying Corps, or Artillery, or the Tanks Corps.

They were on the "front line" in the very first days of the war, and many were killed or taken prisoner. But those that survived the first few months tended to survive the rest of the war. Some of them had very distinguished careers after the war - in particular, many famous surgeons and doctors, and Viscount Portal who was Churchill's Chief of Air Staff in WW2 started as a despatch rider.

The photograph of Arthur is delightful - my brother will be able to date the bike (and may know if it still exists). Aged 30, Arthur would have been older than most of the other DRs, many of whom were early 20s or even late teens.

Please feel free to contact me if you would like further information about the work he did - equally, I'd be delighted if you had any other information about him and his background, eg medals, photographs, or letters. My email address is (*), and I'm based not far away from Grantham, as it happens - I live in Chilwell near Nottingham.

Nick Shelley

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Offline matildakin

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Re: Market gardener Patman in Grantham
« Reply #6 on: Monday 29 October 12 12:11 GMT (UK) »
Nick,

Thanks so much for your reply. It's all very interesting and I'm sure my mother-in-law will appreciate the information.

I know very little about Arthur. My mother-in-law says that he was a theatrical agent. There appears to be corroboration of that in “The Harrison story: Harrison and Harrison, organ builders, Durham” written by Laurence Elvin. That book has a section on Arthur's brother the famous organist G. T. Pattman and the travelling organ with which he toured Britain from 1916 to 1923. It says that "Pattman’s brother was in charge of a staff of six" necessary to manage the organ. That brother could only be Arthur.   

I do have a number of photos some of which I'm attaching here. I don't know if it's the same motorbike as in the picture I posted above in 2009. I can send larger copies to your e-mail if you wish.

Regards,

mat

Offline matildakin

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Re: Market gardener Patman in Grantham
« Reply #7 on: Monday 29 October 12 12:13 GMT (UK) »
Nick,

Here's another picture of Arthur in uniform.

mat

Offline vintagesunbeam

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Re: Market gardener Patman in Grantham
« Reply #8 on: Monday 29 October 12 13:41 GMT (UK) »
Hi Mat

I can't say how delighted I am to hear from you!

In particular the September 1914 photograph is an extraordinary find - it's an outstanding image and shows clearly the despatch rider's armbands and despatch case. I've seen a treasured original armband and despatch case and it's so good to be sure that they are what the owner believed them to be.

And, there is another thing - quite separate from our despatch rider research, I'm the Secretary of the Marston Sunbeam Club.  The motorcycle in this picture (which is a 3 1/2 HP Sunbeam) is the first Sunbeam which I've come across used by a despatch rider. Although it's known that the War Department bought Sunbeams, most of the early despatch riders used Douglas or Triumph motorcycles - so this is a significant piece of new information. I wonder whether you would allow me to publish this photograph in our club Journal? It only has a small circulation (about 400) but it would attract a lot of interest.

If so, I'd much appreciate it if you could email me the photo as an attachment to me at (*)

Many thanks for your help
Nick

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