The missing Nocher family...I need some help finding them.

[forthefamily]

Hello,

I have tried looking for the Nocher family in the 1881 and 1891 Scotland census to no avail. They just don't want to be found.

Here are the details I have about them :

Hugh Nocher (age 23) and Helen McGee (age 22) were married on December 31, 1875 in Glasgow.

I have found the following children for them:

Edward - Nov. 2, 1876 Glasgow
Peter - Apr 2, 1878 Glasgow
Susan - Apr 12, 1879 Cambuslang
Mary Ann - Aug 24, 1880 Cambuslang
Bridget - Sep 20, 1883 Glasgow
Helen (Ellen) - Jul 14, 1886 Glasgow

Hugh Nocher died on January 11, 1887 in Glasgow at the age of 31.

The name Nocher has many and sundry variations - Knocher, Knocker, Nocker etc

I have found Helen calling herself Ellen and her children on Ancestry on the 1901 Scotland census living in Parkhead, Glasgow at 3 Ewing Place:

Ellen Nocker, head, widow, 47, born Ireland
Edward, son, single, 24, Gen’l Labourer (Steel Works), born Glasgow
Peter, son, single, 23, Gen’l Labourer (Tanyard), born Glasgow
Susan, daughter, single, 21, Coloured Weaver, born Cambuslang
Mary, daughter, single, 20, Silk Winder, born Cambuslang
Bridget, daughter, single, 17, Biscuit Factory Worker, born Glasgow
Ellen, daughter, single, 14, Coloured Weaver, born Glasgow

I cannot find the family in either 1881 or 1891 

However, I did find the following family in 1881 that was eerily close in details and are in the right place at the right time. The details are so close I even looked at the original census on Scotlandspeople just to make sure it wasn’t a transcription error. But, sadly not.

1881 Scotland in Cambuslang living on Cullochburn Place:

Hugh Connor, head, married, 28, Gen’l Labourer, born Ireland
Helen Connor, wife, married, 28, born Ireland
Edward, son, 5, born Glasgow
Peter, son, 4, born Glasgow
Susan, daughter, 3, born Cambuslang
Marianne, daughter, 8 mths, born Cambuslang

I don't actually know where Hugh Nocher was born. I haven't found a birth for him in Scotland, England or Wales so perhaps he was Irish 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

mab

[ev]

hi mab 

is there an address given on mary ann's birth cert.(1880)  that might match
the address on the 1881 census entry ?
i can't see anything on the 1881 census disc that would match what you have
apart from that connor family

ev

[forthefamily]

hi ev

Mary Ann was born at Cullochburn  Place in Cambuslang as was Susan  .....So you see why I mentioned the Connors. It was such a bizarre find.

So, the question is who are the Connors  Are the Nochers under an assumed name  If so, what name did they use in 1891  ...and I wonder why 

I have seriously tried every trick I know to find them but no show 

mab

[Lodger]

Could Nocher be the Irish gaelic for Connor? It happens to many names. I have Kerr ancestors who were Carr's in Ireland. In Scots gaelic McKendrick = Henderson and McEachern = McKechnie. It may be worth while contacting the Rootschat board for Ireland.

Good luck,
Lodger

[sancti]

It is too close a coincidence for it not to be them. What was Hugh's occupation on the birth certificates of the children? Did he register them with his mark or signature?

[ev]

Mab 

it's somtimes not a good idea in family research to assume things but in this
case i'm certain that you have found the family in 1881
as Sancti hints hugh might not have been able to read or write , and an Irish
accent may have led to the surname being recorded as Connor 

ev

[forthefamily]

It is too close a coincidence for it not to be them. What was Hugh's occupation on the birth certificates of the children? Did he register them with his mark or signature?

Hugh's occupation is either bricklayer labourer or steel work labourer and he could sign his name but Helen could not.

Just out of curiousity I looked on the 1911 Irish census for the name "Nocher" and there aren't a lot of them 

As you say Nocher may be an Anglicization of a Gaelic form of Connor. I'll have to look into that. My own surname Bonner is Ó Cnáimhsighe which is sometimes translated from the Gaelic as Kneafsey.

Thank you all for your ideas and input.

mab

[REO]

My grandmother's mother was a "Nocker" but there was a period when they changed their name to Connor. She use to tell us it was due to the wars and not wanting to be thought of as German (Nocker and Knocker sound German perhaps?). They lived in northern Ireland though,  part of the Scottish migration of 17th or 18th century.

[forthefamily]

I have since found another member of the family....Hugh's sister...... who also changed the name between Nocher and Connor in Glasgow. I believe they may have been hiding for some reason that we will never know about 

Welcome to Rootschat REO.

mab