Monica and Rosie, Again thanks so much for the help. You are correct Monica, the Gilmour family in the 1851 census is mine. Charles I have info on as well as John. Sister Mary none, as too many Mary Gilmours on SP to know which is mine and I do not want to spend a fortune. As to Thomas and Robert, I found 2 Roberts who fit the bill in 1861 but cannot definitely identify which may be mine. In both cases he is no longer a baker. I was going with the guy in Ayr but until I can locate a death cert for him I cannot be sure.I have checked SP from 1884-1900 with no one seemly fitting the bill. As to Thomas, I thought I had him married to Isabella until I saw marriage and parents were not the same. Him being a mason tho' looked promising as his brother and several cousins are masons. I can find no Thomas in SP from 1855-1875 and 1881-1900. In both Thomas and Robert's case, I can find none in deaths who was born in Ireland. James, I have discovered may be a brother or cousin. My John is buried in his plot in St Peter's Dalbeth cemetery in Glasgow. He is also at same address as John in 1881 census (55 East John St,Glasgow). I need to locate Mary, Thomas and Robert's death certs as I am getting the mother as McLaughlin, McGlaughlin, Hatton and McHatton and want to try to confirm correct one. Lastly with Ellen, I had found a pauper who died in St Quivox,Ayr in 1872 who I thought may be related as on her death cert was the name Hendry and nothing else, which my Rosie's name has sometimes been put as instead of Henry. I then came across the Ellen who died in 1854 and thought well maybe she was the correct one but I need more info on her to be sure. She was listed in burial records of the Old Dalbeth cemetery but no other info except date of death 25-06-1854. If you have any other suggestions, I would love to hear them. Thank you, Kim