Harewood - John Handley Marriage 1807

[bolttail]

Thanks Dobfam. Yes, Charles Handley and his wife Rebecca don't seem to have had any kids and don't seem to have moved very far during their lives. Unlike his sister, Mary, who died in New Zealand. Now that's a long way from Hatfield.

Re John Handley and Mary Manyell, and others you mention. Yes, I have thought that Benjamin might have originated from the Hatfield area. The problem has always been that Yorkshire and North Derbyshire were full of Handleys, but there's always been a famine of Benjamin Handleys who were baptized and grew to be adults. Most of them originated in the Treeton/Aston parishes and can all be eliminated. With them gone, the situation looks quite bleak.

[dobfarm]

One last thing? I have noticed, on the 1861census  at Woodhall, Wombwell, Charles Handley age 42, wife Rebecca age 36 and two people on the list above Charles Handley, next door as a servant milk maid is Margaret Handley age 21  born Scotland ?

 A relative ?

[bolttail]

Margaret Handley next door. A relative? Well you'd think it too much of a coincidence for her not to be. I noticed this a couple of years back and got quite excited. Despite some effort, I could find no connection. I had forgotten all about her. However, as it was some time ago, I'll have another go. Maybe my research techniques have improved or maybe there's new data available online.

[dobfarm]

Hi Bolttail

Looking at your problem with fresh eyes and what you do know.

You have Benjamin Handley married 1812 Dronsfield Occ Saddler

Moved to Chesterfield by 1813 then Hatfield by 1818

Son Benjamin jr seems to have connections of domestic service, coal industry with various other jobs and lived in between North East Rotherham to North West of Doncaster (Why)

son Charles similiar as abodes and in gardening or groom in domestic service.

[bolttail]

Hi Dobfam. I've always suspected that the family move to Hatfield was connected to Benjamin's wife, Mary Simpson.

There was a Mary Simpson born at Hatfield on the 1st May 1777 and baptized on the 24th August.
Her parents were John Simpson and Frances Green who were married at Doncaster on the 22nd January 1764. The couple produced eight children between 1765 and 1780, all baptized at Hatfield.
John Simpson and Frances Green do not appear in my family tree as I have no proof of this connection, though Mary's age of 60 to 64 recorded in the 1841 census fits quite neatly as the 1777 born Mary would have been 64 at the date of the census.

Further, it would have made Mary 34 on the date of the Dronfield marriage. The relatively few children (4) born to this couple and the period (1813 to 1820) seem consistent with this age.

If this connection is correct, it provides a logical reason for the Handleys being in the Doncaster/Hatfield area.

[dobfarm]

There are two possibilities, one as I said earlier, either with twins, one missed in transcriptions, and the other possibility is: Ben was born 'out of wedlock' to a single woman, this could be in the period known as 'walking out together' to the future bride. The bastard infant usually takes the mothers maiden name and changes it to the fathers surname after the couple marry or leaves it as it is ? but brought up an Handley and  also another possibility! the bride before marriage could have had Ben to another father but later married a Handley.

[bolttail]

Agreed. I've always thought that genetically you're on safer ground following the female line. Following the male line always involves a degree of presumption.

[dobfarm]

Pre 1813 baptism entries, very few gave trades or occupations, I had a look at the Handley, Handly. Hanley and Hanly bond allegations marriages, and 'groom of intent to marry' occupations at York Uni yesterday, from 1760 to 1799. The occupations were mostly farmers (some farmers servants = ' ag  lab'), few gardeners, Husbandsman's, Yeoman's and a barbour (Spelt Barbor)

A few signed their own names but most left the X mark

Benjamin sr of the 1812 marriage could write, and had a trade or job of a master high skilled trade, in them days his trade of saddler was very important being horses was the main transport from farm horses, haulage, stagecoach, brewer carts to single horse leather wares and on a par with a master blacksmith.

One big mystery

Maybe Scotland is the place to look, as apart from Birmingham Handley saddlers, nothing is throwing up anything in Yorks/Derbyshire. (Maybe south Derbyshire by the river trend nearer Birmingham or west towards Stoke in Staffs,  the 1841c county of birth of Ben sr 1812 marr, I would take its with a sack of salt as the cooks ingredients are so bad in this case.  ).

One day sommat may turn up.

Sorry to have been no help 

Best

Dobby 

[dobfarm]

http://www.whistonweb.co.uk/gen/darwent.htm

Thomas Darwent 1834 Pigot's directory Saddlers
His Aunty Hannah Derwent (Nee Handley daug of Benjamin Handley)

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Rotherham/Rotherham34Dry.html

Charles Darwent 1761 son of Thomas X Hannah   Handley daughter of Benjamin Handley of Aston married 26th March 1795 Aston

William Darwent Saddler Handworth 1822
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Handsworth/Handsworth22Dry.html

Charles Brother William Derwent b 1769 had a son  Thomas Derwent later a Saddler 1833 Rotherham

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Hannah Handley bapt 5 April 1765

Intent to marry Bond Allegation York

Charles Derwent b 1761 X Hannah Handley B 1765 19 Dec 1786

They actually married 9 years later on 26th March 1795 Aston

Childern ----Question What was the year of births of Betty and Benjamin  (bastardry Handley born out of wedlock 1786 ?)

Betty c.11 FEB 1798 Aston

Benjamin c.05 SEP 1802 Aston

I can't find an infant or adult burial or on 1841c or 1851c for Benjamin Darwent b 1802  - minus 7  years from b 1795 the year of marriage of Charles Darwent and Hannah Handley 1795

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http://www.whistonweb.co.uk/gen/Darwentancestry.pdf

Edee (or Edy, or Edetha) Darwent bapt. 6th or 26th May 1771

William Handley jr bapt 6 th March 1791 mother Edetha Dawent (illegitimate  )

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N5NJ-47D

William Handley sr - intent to marry Edee Darwent 17 Oct 1796 Bond allegation

William Handley sr Married Edee Darwent 31 Oct 1796 Aston Yorks

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The question is ? Is either Hannah Handley (Mrs Charles Darwent) or Edee Darwent (say aged 15 to 19 years old) illegitimate mother of Benjamin Handley marriage 1812 Chesterfield the Saddler as connections to the Darwent saddlers