Richmond Bridewell, Criminal Offence

[taramcdsmall]

Just saw MaryAnne's death and it reads to me as though John had already passed away.

. . . the beloved wife of John O'Brien late of 146 Capel Street . . . and then gives her address as place of leaving !

I could be reading it wrong though !

Tara

[taramcdsmall]

Ok So

I can see the record that I think started all of this off !

It's the 1863 record stating that Michael O'Brien aged 29 Born Kilkenny Residing in 1863 at 146 Capel Street !

Of course too old to be the son of MaryAnne Quinn !

So, this then is marriage with his half sister Catherine as a witness !

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/0341490025978

Yip, defo looks like Kilkenny to route around in - had Mary O'Brien McLoughlin passed away by 1901 ?

Tara

[DudleyWinchurch]

Burial record is saying "married" and "wife of".

I read the funeral notice as "late of 146 Capel Street" meaning that that was the address that everyone would know them by, as they had been trading there for several years. 

It said beloved wife of John, late of ... It didn't say, the late John!

37 Liffey Street is mentioned in other documents as the family address.  It's confusing as several addresses seem to apply at the same time.

The bankruptcy proceedings in 1867-1868 refer to a very large family but three of John and Mary Anne's eight children had already died, so surely five would not have been considered a particularly large family in Dublin at that time?!

[DudleyWinchurch]

Mary (O'Brien) McLoughlin died in 1881 in Upper Abbey Street.  the informant for her burial was Joseph O'Brien of 37 Upper Liffey Street?!

And Myles died in 1886 at 28 Lower Liffey Street.

[taramcdsmall]

OK THIS one has to be the breakthough

The 1865 record for James O'Brien states that he was 15 and born in Bride Street and in 1865 was living at 146 Capel Street.

The important part I think was that he says that he had no mother - just a step mother.

So, if he was born approx 1852 in Dublin to John and Susan - that would mean that Susan would have to have died very shortly after, even possibly in childbirth as by may 1853 John had married MaryAnne Quinn.

Kind of narrows the dates down as to when they came from Kilkenny to Dublin !

Tara

[taramcdsmall]

Well, fingers crossed that this is the ONE

In 1852 in Glasnevin

There is a SUSAN BRIAN buried

Aged 28

and her address is . . .

BRIDE ST

Tara

[DudleyWinchurch]

Wow, that looks good. Won't be much info at that date.  I'll just check through that I don't have it already, then have a look.

OK, again inconclusive.
Four people in the grave, including a Mary Brien, age 50, of Bishop Street, buried the year before.
However the other two don't appear to be related and one is Protestant.

If that is our Susan then she can't be the mother of Michael, born in 1932-34, as she would only have been 8 years old!

But you seem to be working through the same logic as I did, and I didn't find this record before.

[taramcdsmall]

GRRRRRR

It obviously didn't say wife of a bootmaker or similar GRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Forgot how little info is on the earlier burials.

The only thing to hang onto I suppose is that her age could have been given or entered incorrectly on the register and may have been 38 as opposed to 28 - clutching at straws I know !

Ach, back to the drawing board !

Have you found anything prior to 1860 for him being at 146 Capel Street ?

I'm just wondering how the Kilkenny, Bride Street, Capel Street link came about.

I'm wondering was he always in the boot / leather industry or just in his later years.

I'm wondering is it trying to see if there MIGHT be an O'Brien Kilkenny boot connection !

A very long stretch but occupations usually run in families.

HA sorry, but I've run out of Dublin ideas !!!

Tara

[taramcdsmall]

One last thing - Did you not say that it was possible that those earlier O'Brien's were possible siblings of John's as opposed to children of his ?

Tara