Lavister birth

[Lleucu]

I'm looking for any information on Mary Davies, nee Clifford, who states that she was born in Lavister Flintshire on the 1851 census. Her age at that time is 43 - in 1841 its slightly different, she was 30.
Both census show the family in Gayton in the Wirral

Her first born was named Mathew followed by Betsey  - don't know if they are a clue but they are not the names of her husbands' parents. ( They are John and Isabella and husband is James)
Would be very grateful for any details, especially those of her birth.
Thanks in advance,
Lleucu

[tina morana]

Sorry missed the Gayton Wirral connection.
Deleted info

Tinam

[wrjones]

In the 1871 Census Mary is given as born in Pulford Cheshire.Though this is no real help either as I have searched across the three counties,Denbighshire,Flintshire and Cheshire for a suitable Mary Clifford birth but to no avail.

Regards
William Russell Jones.

[Jo Harding]

Hello Lleucu,

The search for Mary Clifford has drawn a complete blank. Do you know when and where she married James Davies?

Lavister is very close to Rossett and I would have expected a baptism to have been found there. Pulford has a church but I am not sure when it dates from. Pulford is on the Grosvenor Estate. The church at St Mary, Eaton, is a possible place to search too.

Jo.

[Jo Harding]

I notice that in the 1871, Mary is shown as aged 66 years, James as 59 years. That puts her year of birth as c1805.

In the 1881, Mary's place of birth is Pulford again. This time her age is given as 79, so year of birth c1802. James age shown as 69!

There is no sign of her in the 1891 census.

There is a tree on Ancestry which shows her as born 1802 in Pulford, Cheshire. She died in 1884 according to that source.

You might be better posting this on the Cheshire Board and the Denbighshire Board possibly as Lavister is in Denbighshire.

Jo.

[Jo Harding]

I have just seen that in the 1851 census in Pulford, there are entries for Matthew Clifford age 72 born Gresford and his wife Betty, age 71, born Pulford.

Are they the parents of Mary?

Jo

[Lleucu]

Hi William and Jo, many thanks for your interest and help. Yes, its very frustrating. Her ages, as you say Jo are all to pot and is no help.
As to her marriage. Mary married James Davies on 20th October 1834 at St Peter, Church Street, Liverpool - long gone! I do not understand why they got married there but I have another couple in my family who married there as well. If anyone knows why people from the Wirral  marry in Liverpool I'd be interested to know.
I have also found the Clifford family in Poulton but have been unable to find the link, although there are a number of names in common. There is a  Mathew Clifford( Born in Gresford) who died in 1860 aged 81 and a Betsey Clifford who died in 1865 aged 85??? So?

I have the birth certificate for Mary and James' daughter Isabella in 1840 and Mary is described as Mary Davies formerly Clifford.
But she is a mystery!
Is there any other way of pinpointing her?Please  come forward with any suggestions.
In the meantime thanks for everything  -and for checking the 3 counties William.
Lleucu

[Jo Harding]

Hello Lleucu,

Have you seen the entry in the parish registers for their marriage in 1834? This might reveal the name and occupation of Mary's father.

I also have ancestors who married in Liverpool. They were from Mold, Flintshire and Chester/Cheshire. I don't know of any obvious connection to Liverpool. Why they should marry in Liverpool is a mystery to me. I do wonder if the marriage was disapproved of by one, or both, sets of parents and they went out of the area. One possibility is that the groom was working for the railway and working in Liverpool when they married.

The 1841 census shows Matthew and Elizabeth Clifford living in Pulford village. The household includes Sarah Clifford, age 20 and James Clifford, age 15. All four people show they were born in county, ie Cheshire. Relationships were not given in the 1841 but it looks reasonable to assume that Sarah and James were children of Matthew and Elizabeth Clifford. Bear in mind that in the 1841 census, ages were rounded up, or down, to the nearest 5 years, so 20 and 15 would be rounded figures.

I don't know if you have tried to link Sarah and James to Mary Clifford. I noticed that Sarah married in St Oswald's, Chester, in 1843. Her father is shown as Matthew Clifford.

I noticed that Matthew Clifford was buried in Pulford in 1860. Betty was buried there in 1865.

Elizabeth Clifford can be found in the 1861 census in Moor Bridge, Saltney. She is aged 81, a widow and described as "Mother". The head of the household is William Evans, age 40, Railway Lab. born Pulford, his wife is Martha Evans, age 42, born Pulford.

I wonder if Elizabeth was married before in view of her age difference to Matthew Clifford. Could Mary have been a daughter by her first husband?

My advice would be to put a post on the Cheshire Board requesting that someone do a look up in Chester RO to see if they can find a baptism for Mary Clifford in Pulford. It could be that she was baptised in one of the churches in Chester however.

Jo.

[wilcoxon]

Marriage: 20 Oct 1834 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
 James Davies - (X), Labourer, This parish
 Mary Clifford - (X), Spinster, This Parish
     Witness: William Birch; Elizabeth Davies
     Married by Banns by: Richard Appleton, Ass Curate

Lancs online parish clerks