Which 'Robert Williams' - death certificate? Help needed

[Matt62]

I wonder if Robert had just left the family and widow was a title Margaret assumed??

An interesting possibility, although one wonders why she might have done this since the census gave her the opportunity to list herself as "single, married or widow". Strangely, she is listed as "single" on her death certificate in 1937, not as a widow, even though she used the name "Williams otherwise Wilkie". It is a very strange relationship she seems to have had with Robert.

Although there was no option for "divorcees" (single might have been taken as 'spinster' perhaps?). Might "widow" have been her way of saying that her partner had left her??? I just don't know.

On the face of it, "widow" would seem to indicate that Robert died between 1905-1911, yet I can't find a death certificate matching him. And we know that Margaret never actually married Robert and so could never have been a real "widow" in any legal sense, as reflected in her death certificate where she is described as "single" (ie never having been married).

I want to take the opportunity re-thank you for finding the family on the 1911 census. It has been an invaluable help, since I know for a fact that she wasn't then living with Robert and lists herself as a "widow" 

Robert is a man of mystery so far to me, as is his relationship with Margaret.

[Kay99]

As Margaret/Maggie was living with her son Robert, would he have has head of household have filled/given details for the census?   Not sure  how this worked for the Scottish Census

[RJ_Paton]

When on a legal form you see the name given as Margaret Wilkie Williams otherwise Margaret Wilkie this is a clear indication that her name is Margaret Wilkie and that she has chosen to call herself Williams. If she had married Robert Williams her name would have been listed as Margaret Wilkie or Williams (or Margaret Williams M.S. Wilkie depending upon the format of the document). Legally in Scotland a woman does not change her name on marriage but can if she wishes to do so, adopt her husbands surname for her use.

Although it is possible that they may have married after the birth of the children the fact that they were unmarried at the time is the reason that the word illegitimate is on the birth certificate of at least one of the children.

With regard to the claim of widow - Socially a woman with a number of children would be more acceptable as a widow rather than as a "single mother"

I wonder if she applied for any sort of Poor Relief - unfortunately the records are not online but are held at the Mitchell Library in Glasgow. If she did apply for relief the Inspectors reports are usually quite informative as they turn over every aspect to try and ensure they can get their money back (or minimise the amount they give out)

[Matt62]

I wonder if she applied for any sort of Poor Relief - unfortunately the records are not online but are held at the Mitchell Library in Glasgow. If she did apply for relief the Inspectors reports are usually quite informative as they turn over every aspect to try and ensure they can get their money back (or minimise the amount they give out)

That is an interesting avenue for me to check, Falk. I should be able to visit the Mitchell when time allows. How would I go about asking after Poor Relief documents?

[RJ_Paton]

The staff there will guide you - I have always found them to be very helpful.

Basically the index is on a computer database which you search, the reference number comes up and you fill in the request slip with the details. After a, normally, short wait the original books are brought to you to look through - the original reference number will give you the details of the entry.

If you do get the opportunity search for other family members as they may have applied at different times and Margaret or Robert may be mentioned in those.

[MonicaL]

Matt, have a look here at these youtube links (thank you Sancti  ) www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=683686.0 

Summary of what is available to search:

•   Part 1: Elizabeth Carmichael gives us tips on where to start researching your Scottish roots...
•   Part 2: Elizabeth gives more advice, showing us the census archive and the Evening Times Roll of Honour... /
•   Part 3: Dr Irene O'Brien from Glasgow city archives shows the voters roll and school, sasines and police registers...
•   Part 4: Dr Irene O'Brien explains the church archives, the Family and estate registers, the Kirk session minutes...
•   Part 5: Dr Irene O'Brien unveils another useful resource held at the library: the Poor Law Archives...
•   Part 6: Dr. Irene OBrien explains more about the Poor Law Archives and shows how to search for poor law ancestors...

Monica 

[Matt62]

Matt, have a look here at these youtube links (thank you Sancti  ) www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=683686.0 

Summary of what is available to search:

•   Part 1: Elizabeth Carmichael gives us tips on where to start researching your Scottish roots...
•   Part 2: Elizabeth gives more advice, showing us the census archive and the Evening Times Roll of Honour... /
•   Part 3: Dr Irene O'Brien from Glasgow city archives shows the voters roll and school, sasines and police registers...
•   Part 4: Dr Irene O'Brien explains the church archives, the Family and estate registers, the Kirk session minutes...
•   Part 5: Dr Irene O'Brien unveils another useful resource held at the library: the Poor Law Archives...
•   Part 6: Dr. Irene OBrien explains more about the Poor Law Archives and shows how to search for poor law ancestors...

Monica 

Thank you Monica, I will look at these with interest! 

[Matt62]

I found Robert Williams in the 1891 census. He and Margaret are simply listed as unmarried and he is said to have been born in Londonderry, Ireland. At the very least I know where he came from, however it is really irritating not being able to know what became of him after 1901. There is no Robert Williams who seems to match him in the 1911 census.

I do wonder if he assumed another name or wasn't even originally called Robert Williams at all. He just seems to have vanished.

[Matt62]

I managed to visit the Mitchell Library today. I found Margaret Wilkie's poor relief record. I found a Robert Williams from Londonderry, Ireland just like mine but it wasn't the right person (ie occupation and age didn't fit).

I'm still nonplussed. Here are the relevant details:

Margaret (age 44) on 15/11/1906 when the poor inspector visited her. No details are given about Robert's parents, he is simply described as her "paramour" (illicit lover). It states that he died 5 months ago in the Royal Infirmary. Thing is, I cannot find a Robert Williams who died in 1906 aged around 44-45.

It states:

"Applied for outdoor relief because her paramour has died. She was previously supported by her paramour's efforts".

It then rhymes off all of the illegitimate children they had together, noting that Robert Williams, a rigger, was the "putative father".

It then states:

"All children registered by putative father except for one, Robert. Reason for this one exception is because putative father (Robert Williams) was away on a long voyage at the time (1885)."

There is some confusion about the religion. Margaret is wrongly put down as a Roman Catholic, it is then corrected to note that she is actually Protestant. However it says that her children were all Roman Catholics. Can I presume that this means Robert was a Catholic? His daughter, my great-great grandfather, was definitely a Protestant since she married in the Church of Scotland. This, therefore, confuses me as well.

So I'm not sure still where I stand. I was hoping for some details on Robert's parentage. He is such an elusive person! Either Margaret knew next to nothing about him or she was purposefully concealing information.

I will go back to the Mitchell and look up some of the children when time allows but I'm not holding my breath that they will know anything much else about their father.