Author Topic: What is this word on an 1841 Welsh census form?  (Read 756 times)

Offline Lisajb

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What is this word on an 1841 Welsh census form?
« on: Saturday 11 October 14 18:32 BST (UK) »
Could someone puzzle out what this word is in the first column of the 1841 Welsh census form?

Reference is HO 107/1379/6
Mullingar, Westmeath Ireland: Gilligan/Wall/Meagher/Maher/Gray/O'Hara/Corroon (various spellings)
Bristol: Woodman/James/Derrick
Bristol/Somerset: Saunders/Wilmot
Gloucestershire:Woodman/Mathews/Tandy/Stinchcombe/Marten/Thompson
Wiltshire: Mathews
Carmarthen: Thomas, Lewis
Australia: Mary Lewis, transportee, married Henry Brown - what happened to her?

Offline chris_49

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Re: What is this word on an 1841 Welsh census form?
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 11 October 14 18:36 BST (UK) »
"Wern" - mutated form of Gwern, meaning a marsh. If a place-name, the mutation implies an invisible "y" (the) so The Marsh.

Gwern is also the plural of Gwernen - alder tree, but then you often find alder trees at a marsh
Skelcey (Skelsey Skelcy Skeley Shelsey Kelcy Skelcher) - Warks, Yorks, Lancs <br />Hancox - Warks<br />Green - Warks<br />Draper - Warks<br />Lynes - Warks<br />Hudson - Warks<br />Morris - Denbs Mont Salop <br />Davies - Cheshire, North Wales<br />Fellowes - Cheshire, Denbighshire<br />Owens - Cheshire/North Wales<br />Hicks - Cornwall<br />Lloyd and Jones (Mont)<br />Rhys/Rees (Mont)

Offline Lisajb

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Re: What is this word on an 1841 Welsh census form?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 11 October 14 18:43 BST (UK) »
Hi Chris
Thanks for this, it's in the column headed "Place".

Lisa
Mullingar, Westmeath Ireland: Gilligan/Wall/Meagher/Maher/Gray/O'Hara/Corroon (various spellings)
Bristol: Woodman/James/Derrick
Bristol/Somerset: Saunders/Wilmot
Gloucestershire:Woodman/Mathews/Tandy/Stinchcombe/Marten/Thompson
Wiltshire: Mathews
Carmarthen: Thomas, Lewis
Australia: Mary Lewis, transportee, married Henry Brown - what happened to her?

Offline chris_49

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Re: What is this word on an 1841 Welsh census form?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 11 October 14 18:50 BST (UK) »
You're welcome. Gwern (singular, "marsh") has a plural but I don't know what it is. You get this sometimes in Welsh - Coeden = tree, Coed = tree, or "a wood", coediau = woods, so a double plural.

Only double plural I know in English is "children" - the original plural "childer" fell out of use, except in dialect.

Skelcey (Skelsey Skelcy Skeley Shelsey Kelcy Skelcher) - Warks, Yorks, Lancs <br />Hancox - Warks<br />Green - Warks<br />Draper - Warks<br />Lynes - Warks<br />Hudson - Warks<br />Morris - Denbs Mont Salop <br />Davies - Cheshire, North Wales<br />Fellowes - Cheshire, Denbighshire<br />Owens - Cheshire/North Wales<br />Hicks - Cornwall<br />Lloyd and Jones (Mont)<br />Rhys/Rees (Mont)


Offline Lisajb

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Re: What is this word on an 1841 Welsh census form?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 11 October 14 18:56 BST (UK) »
Oxen, maybe?

Apart from verbs, adverbs, adjectives, nouns and pronouns I missed out on English grammer at school!

So, The Marsh - this would be like a street address, like The Row or The Common?
Mullingar, Westmeath Ireland: Gilligan/Wall/Meagher/Maher/Gray/O'Hara/Corroon (various spellings)
Bristol: Woodman/James/Derrick
Bristol/Somerset: Saunders/Wilmot
Gloucestershire:Woodman/Mathews/Tandy/Stinchcombe/Marten/Thompson
Wiltshire: Mathews
Carmarthen: Thomas, Lewis
Australia: Mary Lewis, transportee, married Henry Brown - what happened to her?

Offline chris_49

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Re: What is this word on an 1841 Welsh census form?
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 11 October 14 19:09 BST (UK) »
Oxen is just an irregular plural, like geese or mice. Children is the plural of childer, so really means "groups of children" so I suppose you should only use it for at least 4!

Wern is probably the name of a farm, or hamlet - I've never seen it as a street name. Back then you might find a number of households at the same farm. 1841 addresses are annoyingly imprecise, aren't they?
Skelcey (Skelsey Skelcy Skeley Shelsey Kelcy Skelcher) - Warks, Yorks, Lancs <br />Hancox - Warks<br />Green - Warks<br />Draper - Warks<br />Lynes - Warks<br />Hudson - Warks<br />Morris - Denbs Mont Salop <br />Davies - Cheshire, North Wales<br />Fellowes - Cheshire, Denbighshire<br />Owens - Cheshire/North Wales<br />Hicks - Cornwall<br />Lloyd and Jones (Mont)<br />Rhys/Rees (Mont)

Offline Mabel Bagshawe

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Re: What is this word on an 1841 Welsh census form?
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 11 October 14 19:17 BST (UK) »
Might be the name of a farm or dwelling, or just a local name for an area within a parish (in this case the local marshy spot)

Offline Lisajb

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Re: What is this word on an 1841 Welsh census form?
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 11 October 14 20:11 BST (UK) »
Yes, there seem to be quite a few in this place, although each family/household has this written in the Place column for them.  The last entry on the page says Almshouse instead.

Thanks for correcting me on Oxen - you learn something every day!
Mullingar, Westmeath Ireland: Gilligan/Wall/Meagher/Maher/Gray/O'Hara/Corroon (various spellings)
Bristol: Woodman/James/Derrick
Bristol/Somerset: Saunders/Wilmot
Gloucestershire:Woodman/Mathews/Tandy/Stinchcombe/Marten/Thompson
Wiltshire: Mathews
Carmarthen: Thomas, Lewis
Australia: Mary Lewis, transportee, married Henry Brown - what happened to her?