(*Completed with thanks.*)Robert RUSSELL are these his parents?

[jennywren001]

Mother's side this time..sorry this is so long winded...
Robert Russel(l) and Isabella Coutts marry 19/06/1841 in Inverkeillor.
First four children are born Inverkeillor the last two are born in Arbroath
On the 51 census Robert Russel lists his age as 30 and his birth place St Vigeans the family are living Inverkeillor.
On the 61 census Isabella Coutts is listed as widow and five children are showing and they are living in Arbroath. (The youngest child Isabellla was born 1854 and died 1856 - her aunt Jane Coutts signs the death certificate.)

There is a Robert Russel baptised 18/06/1816 parents Alexander Russel and Margaret Pearson in St Vigeans at Fisheracre.
I have a Robert on the 1841 census with parents called Alexander and Margaret living Inverkeilor - name listed as Rusale this time. Age given as 20.

So I lose Robert between the 51 and 61 census...I found a 1858 death certificate for a Robert Russell in Arboath. Unfortunately, this man fell over the edge and drowned in Arboath Harbour only his age (43) and name are given  the rest of the information concerns where he died and cause of death. Nothing to help with parentage.

I'd like to think on balance the birth I have at St Vigeans is the Robert Russell who marries Isabella Coutts.  However, I am more than aware of missing birth records, I also have the following concerns, there is no naming of a Margaret or an Alexander although we have both a George and a Georgina. Robert does not sign Isabella's death certificate. The ages on the 41 and 51 census are five years out for a 1816 birth. Any thoughts on moving forward with this one?
Jen

[loobylooayr]

Hi Jenny,
Just had a quick look - Alexander Russel and Margaret Pearson have a daughter Christina Russel in 1839 at Inverkelior.  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XB8J-LLZ
The RUSALE famliy on the 1841 Census have a 4 year old daughter called Christina. The age is a bit out but Census ages are never reliable . It just depended how well informed the person supplying the info was! Also ages of adults (over 15) were to be rounded down to the nearest 0 or 5 on the 1841 Census. So Robert aged 20 could have been any age between 20-24. This rule was however not always followed but many adults are either *5 or *0 on this Census. Apologies if you already knew all this
Looby

[loobylooayr]

Hi again,
Does the death certificate for the poor Robert Russell who drowned not have his marital status /or his wife's name? Is there a Record of Corrected Entries for this death?
Looby

[jennywren001]

Hi Looby,
I think the fact they rounded down (usually) on the 41 makes the 1816 birth even more suspect.
Nothing to help on the death cert no martial status or address - somehow they knew his age though.  I had another relative drowned in Dundee harbour in the 1930s and his certificate was the same....gosh as I'm writing this I remembered his death was written up in the Courier I wonder if something appears in print for this Robert - I'll check that. 
RoC entries - better revist that as SP...but going to weed inthe sunshine now!
Jen

[loobylooayr]

The Census was on 6th June 1841 - so technically a birth on Robert born June 1816 he might still have been 24
It's strange that there is so little on the Death cert. Who registered the death?
Enjoy your sunshine - it's pouring down here,
Looby

[jennywren001]

Hi Looby,
Gone back to SP but no ROC entry linked with this cert. 
DC states " Registered on the information of John Skinner p. John B Baxter Procurator Fiscal"
not sure what ' p.' means?
Death took place between 27th and 28th November - precise time unknown.
Cause of death talks about falling accidentally over the edge...
Not registered until December 14th 1858...
Senior moment - if he was 24 then 1816 looking better not worse although he is sticking to being 30 in 1851...
20 and sunny here 
Jen

[jennywren001]

Hi Looby,
Checked the 51 census and found Alexander (birth place St Vigeans and Margaret with Christina now listed as age 11 - just confirms their ages are all over the place!  So a chance that Alexander lives through to official record time and dies while Robert is still be alive allowing him to sign the death record (talk about grasping at straws). Well, he did live to 1857 - dies of cholera and a Robert Russel signs his death cert but it's his brother!  But now know his parents (mother Helen Milne) and they are both still alive on the 41 census.

Sloppy work alert- when I looked at this family originally (about three years ago) I took the children (except for David) from the census (I was only thinking direct line...). Today I checked on LDS and some of Robert and Isabella's children have middle names including Georgina Milne Russell. There are also middle names More (Isabella Coutts mother's name) Tough? and Carnegie?

Thanks to you mentioning the exact date of the census I realised the marriage took place only 13 days afterwards so I'm now 99.9% sure that the Robert living with Alexander and Margaret (who we now know was Margaret Pearson because she gave birth to Christina) was the one who married Isabella Coutts in Inverkeillor. Talk about around the houses...
Thanks again Looby - I needed to get past that unhelpful death certificate. Bonus is I now have Robert's grandparents.
Jen

[jennywren001]

Hi Everyone,
Thanks to Looby, a bit of luck and three days work I've managed to establish the following regarding  Robert's family. Robert's parents - Alexander and Margaret had 12 children (that I've found ) 9 of whom I've located on the 1841 census.  Charles age 10 born to them in 1831 is showing with his grandparents Robert Russell age 89 and Helen Milne age 87 along with their daughter Helen.  I now know Robert and Helen got married in Inverkeilor in 1791 and had at least four children (only David is unaccounted for on the 1841 census). 

Robert age 89 would have been born around 1752 - I've found a 1749 marriage at Arbirlot in Angus of a Gilbert Russell to a Margaret Kid(d) they have two births listed, a Robert born 1751 in Inverkeilor and a James born 1755 also born Inverkeilor. I feel confident that the Robert born in 1751 is the same Robert alive on the 1841 census.

Robert who marries Isabella Coutts have a son called David who marries that (still missing) scoundrel James Christie's daughter Elizabeth - their son James Christie Russell is father to my late granpa also James Christie Russell.

back to the veggie plot...
Jen