John Winn

[oze]

Does anyone know of any set of records which would help me prove that Theodore Winn (born Birmingham c. 1820) is the son of John and Sarah Winn? John Winn (born around 1795 to 1801) and Sarah Upton (born around 1800 to 1805) married in St Edburgha’s church (Yardley, Birmingham) in 1822 or 1823. I am also looking for a record for any of their children born in Birmingham before 1828 or the names of John and Sarah’s parents. I have information about them after this date (posted on Rootschat under Theodore Winn). John was a gas fitter and brass founder/finisher. Thank you, oze

[jim1]

On his marriage to Mary Rolt he says his father is also Theodore Winn gas fitter.
His makes his mark but refers to himself as Theodore Jnr.
Mistake.I think that's his son.

[jim1]

The circumstantial info points to Theodore being the illegitimate son of Sarah Upton, not Baptised & given the Winn name after marriage.

[oze]

Thank you jim1 that is something I hadn't considered. Since Theodore Sr's. birth was in the early 1820's I don't know how I could prove he was illegitimate.
oze

[suzard]

John Winn (born around 1795 to 1801) and Sarah Upton (born around 1800 to 1805) married in St Edburgha’s church (Yardley, Birmingham) in 1822 or 1823.

John & Sarah married 1823

Parish register
St Edburgha Parish of Yardley
County of Worcester
Page 10 Entry no 49
Banns of Marriage published 3 Sundays
5th/12th/19th October 1823

Marriage after Banns
Page 59 Entry no 176
St Edburgha Parish of Yardley County of Worcester
John Winn of this Parish Bachelor
Sarah Upton of this parish Spinster
married in this Church by Banns
20 October 1823
By Henry Gwyther vicar
witnesses John Boyden & Sarah Haynes
Witnesses bride and groom all "made their mark"

Suz

[suzard]

. I am also looking for a record for any of their children born in Birmingham before 1828 or the names of John and Sarah’s parents. I have information about them after this date (posted on Rootschat under Theodore Winn). John was a gas fitter and brass founder/finisher. Thank you, oze

On your  other post you have Elizabeth b 1828 - It seems she and her brother John Thomas were born pre 1828 but baptised 1828
1841 Gives Elizabeth the age of 15 - as ages were rounded down to the nearest 5 years on 1841 census this means she was age between 15-19
Thomas (possibly John Thomas) was age 14
They were baptised on the same day - unfortunately d.o.b. are not recorded on these baptisms

Parish registers St John the Evangelist Lambeth Surrey
Baptisms by J Rigg M.A.
1 Jun 1828
Page 245 Entry no 1960
Elizabeth Winn
John Thomas Winn
Parents John & Sarah Winn
address Wootton St
father's occ Brass Founder

Suz

[suzard]

. I am also looking for a record for any of their children born in Birmingham before 1828 or the names of John and Sarah’s parents.

Could this be Sarah's baptism
Parish records
St Martin Birmingham Warwickshire
Baptism
4 Jan 1802
Sarah daughter of Thomas & Mary Upton

Suz

[oze]

Thank you suzard for the detailed information about the marriage banns and their marriage after banns which I did not have. It looks like the correct birthdate for Sarah’s baptism so I can search this further. I can see that there are many possible situations with Theodore Winn Sr. including that Elizabeth may be the eldest child and therefore John and Sarah might not be his parents. Theodore may also have been illegitimate, may have been John’s nephew or some other relative. However, Theodore’s address in the 1841 census is 2, 2b or 26 Webber Street, Southwark, and in The London Gazette, Publication date: 14 February 1834, Issue: 19128, Page: 286 John Winn is reported as having a former address at 25 Webber Street, Blackfriars Road. This would have to be before 1841. He was in co-partnership with Joseph Davis, under the firm of Winn and Davis, as Gas-Fitters and Brass-Founders. I think that assuming that John and Theodore are father and son is the simplest relationship to explore. I have been hoping to find Theodore’s parents for several years now with no luck. I have also tried to investigate his wife Mary’s background without success. In the 1851 census it is recorded that Mary is from Gloucestershire. A couple aged 63 live next to Theodore and Mary in the 1851 census at Pearl Row, Southwark, and I thought it possible that they may be Mary’s parents because they are also from Gloucestershire, however their surname is unreadable.
oze

[suzard]

Hi - I think 1841 Theodore & Mary are at no 2 and (it looks like they)are lodgers- the census for no 2 starts on the previous page to Theodore's entry -do you need full details??

I cannot find a marriage for Theodore & Mary - purchase of the birth certificate of one of theyounger children would give Mary's maiden name???

 Suz