Author Topic: William Cartwright born 1796  (Read 6861 times)

Offline nsc

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William Cartwright born 1796
« on: Tuesday 09 November 04 23:30 GMT (UK) »
Does anyone have access to Parish Records or Baptisms for Nantwich?

My greatx3 grandad was born circa 1796 (died in 1873 aged 77 according to death certificate) in either Nantwich or Willaston. Have been trying to trace him (on and off) for around 10 years, so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks


Neil Cartwright

Offline peterbennett

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Re: William Cartwright born 1796
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 10 November 04 12:51 GMT (UK) »
Hi Neil

           There is a record of a William Cartwright born Nantwich in the parish records at Chester R O

DATED 1797/05/26
FORENAME WILLIAM
SEX M
FATHER_FORENAME WILLIAM
MOTHER_FORENAME ALICE
SURNAME CARTWRIGHT
OCCUPATION STAYMAKER

regards

peterbennett
All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright<br />www.NationalArchives.gov.uk <br />Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/ <br />Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm<br />Cheshire family history society  www.fhsc.org.uk/<br />Cheshire Records Office http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.tm<br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------<br />Bennett/,Whaley,Chesh/Lancs, Brindley Staffs

Offline nsc

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Re: William Cartwright born 1796
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 10 November 04 15:18 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Peter.

It certainly fits the bill. However, I've found this William before, and I think I also found his death  a couple of years later in the Parish Records, so I dismissed him.

Could you possibly double-check this for me and tell me what you think?

However, it's the only William I've found, born in the right place at around the right time. I've also checked the IGI for adjoining counties, and nothing else comes up.

I was beginning to wonder if it was possible for a child to be born and not be registered. Could his parents have intended to have him baptised, but simply forgot?

I was also beginning to place him in the same Nantwich family as Sampson Cartwright, as there seems to be a Willaston connection.

And while I'm on, can you tell me what a 'Civil Marriage' is as opposed to a church one? They seem relatively common in Nantwich in the 1800's.

Cheers


Neil



Offline peterbennett

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Re: William Cartwright born 1796
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 10 November 04 16:42 GMT (UK) »
Hi Neil

          Looking at the deaths for Nantwich it would seem your right,there was an infant William buried 7/7/1797, although the records do not show the parents names,its a reasonable assumption its one in the same. Do you have any names of siblings for the William your searching for I could try putting these together with their parents,unfortunately I only have access to Nantwich BMD records, no Willaston as yet.
         The next William baptised was in 1807 to Sampson and Emma.
         It is always possible that your William was not baptised.
Cival marriages prior to 1837 were non conformist weddings ie;
anything other than a Church of England marriage. There are a couple of links on this message thats will give you more info.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=18682.0

regards

peterbennett
All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright<br />www.NationalArchives.gov.uk <br />Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/ <br />Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm<br />Cheshire family history society  www.fhsc.org.uk/<br />Cheshire Records Office http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.tm<br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------<br />Bennett/,Whaley,Chesh/Lancs, Brindley Staffs


Offline nsc

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Re: William Cartwright born 1796
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 10 November 04 19:11 GMT (UK) »
Thankyou, again, Peter.

I don't know the names of any of William's siblings, but his children were Mary Ann (1819), James (1823), by his first wife, and then Thomas (1829), Samuel (1831), Martha (1835), John (1837), Jane (1839), Eliza (1841), Richard (1843), and Alfred (1849) by his second. Whether this can provide a lead????

Incidentally, my wife is called Jane (spelt like that even though she's French) and coincidentally, and perhaps a little subconsciously, our daughter is called Marthe!


Thanks for your help. As we live in France, it is not always easy to get to the Records Office!


Neil

Offline nsc

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Re: William Cartwright born 1796
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 13 November 04 11:48 GMT (UK) »
OK. My ggggrandfather, William Cartwright:

He was born in or around 1796 – his death cetificate on 2.12.1873 (Hospital Street, Nantwich) has him at 77 years old, which is consistent with the census returns, although his burial record in the Parish Registers has him at 80.

The census for 1841 has his place of birth as Nantwich, whilst the censuses for 1851, 61 and 71 have it as Willaston (which adjoins Nantwich).

The earliest records I have for him are from the Poor Rate Assessments:
In 1815 and 1816, a William Cartwright is found to be living at No 58 Hospital Street. This is consistent with his later places of residence. But then he seems to disappear from the records until the 1841 census, which, again, places him in Hospital Street. (Although, there is a William Cartwright recorded in the Poor Rate Assessments for 1831 living at No 50 High Town renting a house and outlet, which could be him).

(His occupation was always recorded as shoemaker. Living in Welch Row 1841 and 51 was a James Cartwright and his family. James was also a shoemaker and 4 years younger than William. Welch Row adjoined High Town. Could James have been William’s younger brother? The names of his children: James, Ann, John, Elizabeth, Charles and Mary bear a remarkable resemblance to the names of William’s children, and also to the names of the family whom I will speculate could have been William’s grandparents).

But before 1815, when he would have been around 19 years old, there is nothing.

William married Sarah Ann Davies on 15.11.1819, with whom he had two children, Mary Ann and James, but Sarah Ann died and was buried 18.8.1827. William then married Martha Brown, presumably in 1828, and went on to have 8 more children: Thomas, Samual, Martha, John, Jane, Eliza, Richard and Alfred. I am a direct descendent of Thomas.

He started a family Bible in 1849, where he records the dates of birth of his children. He is evidently literate and writes in a neat copper plate. When his son, Thomas takes over, the neatness disappears. This leads me to feel that William had a reasonably good education.

Furthermore, his longevity is uncommon. Thes two facts lead me to surmise that he may be a descendent of what seems to be the principal (and, I feel,  possibly more affluent) Cartwright family in Nantwich at that time:

William Cartwright (Joiner) married Mary Foden (born c.1753) on 11.2.1770. Their children were:
Elizabeth    1770
Thomas   1771
Sampson   1774
William   1778
James    1779
Mary   1781
Frances   1783
Sampson   1784
Catherine   1786
Jane   1790
Charles   1792
Frances   1793

Do you see the similarity in the names ?

Assuming that Sampson (1774) died (as did Frances (1783)), that leaves Thomas, William or James who could have fathered my ggggrandfather. Sampson (1784) (who, incidentally died in Willaston, aged 80) and Charles would have been too young.

It is interesting to note that my ggggrandfather called his first two sons James and Thomas, and a third one Samual, and three of his daughters Mary Ann, Jane and Eliza.

Sampson (1784) went on to become a leading confectioner in the town, and, it seems, owned a number of properties. This would suggest that he, too, had a reasonably sound education. His longevity and eventual death in Willaston - the recorded birthplace of my William -  leads me to feel that he could have come from the same family as my William, and could, therefore have been William’s uncle.

However, at present, this is pure speculation.

Is there anybody out there who can help me establish a connection? ???


Neil






Offline brc

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Re: William Cartwright born 1796
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 22 January 05 10:56 GMT (UK) »
Hi Neil,
   I read with interest your posting re-William Cartwright. I am helping a friend with his research and he is directly descended from the John Cartwright born 1837, brother of your Thomas.  You mentioned that the William born 1796/7 was possibly the son of Thomas, William or James (sons of William Cartwright and Mary Foden).  Is the William born 1796/7 the one born to William and Alice in Nantwich (according to the IGI)?  Who is this Alice?
   Do you still think the link back to William Cartwright and his wife Mary Foden as being unproven?  Do you have any info on Martha Brown?
   I have some info on what happened to John Cartwright.

Regards,
Brian
   

Offline nsc

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Re: William Cartwright born 1796
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 22 January 05 20:17 GMT (UK) »
Hi Brian,

Very interesting !!

I have a photocopy of the flyleaf from the family Bible which records John as being born on 7th August, 1837. I think I traced him a little back in the 80s, and although I can’r remember where I recorded it, I have a feeling he died in Crewe, aged something like 26, from phthisis, which I think is TB. However, I may be wrong. (Just found what I recorded. I most certainly am wrong. It was his younger brother Richard who died on 27 February, 1869, aged 26 of Phthisis in Wistaston Street, Monks Coppenhall).

I would be extremely interested to have further info on John, and if possible, contact with your friend – it would be great to see how another branch of the family from 1837 casts forward to the present day. Do you have anything further on John’s ancestry?

The William and Alice connection (Acton) from the IGI and Parish Records is interesting. At first, I thought I’d struck gold, but I’ve since discounted it, because it seems that their William died just over a year later.

The Mary Foden connection I would dearly love to prove, and I am in regular contact with one of her descendants who now lives in the USA. But as I have said, as yet, it is merely speculation. Mary Foden had two sons called William in 1773 and 1778. One way for the connection to work, would be for the second William to have died, to then be replaced by a third William in 1796, when Mary would have been 43 years old. He would also have to remain unrecorded. This seems unlikely.

A second solution would be for our  William to have been the first son of William (1778), when he would have been 18. Possible. Or James (1779) or Thomas (1771) aged 25 – perfectly feasible. Althoguh I have nothing on these people at all, the coincidence of names is persuasive. William named his first three sons James, Thomas and Samuel. James and Thomas could relate to two of William’s brothers, as Samuel may relate to a further brother called Sampson. But nothing, as yet, is proven.

Martha Brown was John’s mother. I don’t have a great deal on her, except that she was born in Buckley around 1804, married William c1828, and died in Nantwich in 1866 – 7 years before William, who died 2nd December, 1873.

My e-mail is neil5856@aol.com

I would be grateful for anything you could send me, and I am happy to help you in any way I can.

Thomas, by the way, was killed at Nantwich Station on 12th October, 1875.


Cheers



Neil

Offline brc

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Re: William Cartwright born 1796
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 22 January 05 22:52 GMT (UK) »
Hi Neil,
   You said that Martha Brown was born in Buckley in about 1804.  Where is Buckley? Do you know who her parents were?  I am afraid I have no info on the ancestry of John Cartwright other than what you have.