Author Topic: Tooze or Dudd? A mystery in Ottery St Mary  (Read 9649 times)

Offline avm228

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Re: Tooze or Dudd? A mystery in Ottery St Mary
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 08 October 14 11:52 BST (UK) »
There's one other significant record I should mention.

I have a burial in Ottery St Mary of a Mary Tooze Dudd, May 12th 1850, DOB 1823.

I have no idea who this might be, but with a DOB of 1823, she stands out as an oddity in the scheme of things.

I've not been able to find a baptism under this name.

Nor can I find a matching marriage to a Tooze. (Could she have married James, DOB 1830).

It doesn't seem likely she was an early (pre-marriage) child of Robert and Jane.

Might she have been a brother of Robert?

Another mystery :-)

Her name wasn't Mary, it was Louisa, according to the burials register.

Louisa Tooze Dudd, 27, of Sandhill St buried May 12th 1850.

There is no other Tooze or Dudd on the page.

The typed GRO index shows the name as Louis Tooze Dudd.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline johngosling

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Re: Tooze or Dudd? A mystery in Ottery St Mary
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 08 October 14 11:55 BST (UK) »
Got me :-) Sorry, you're quite correct.

There's one other significant record I should mention.

I have a burial in Ottery St Mary of a Mary Tooze Dudd, May 12th 1850, DOB 1823.

I have no idea who this might be, but with a DOB of 1823, she stands out as an oddity in the scheme of things.

I've not been able to find a baptism under this name.

Nor can I find a matching marriage to a Tooze. (Could she have married James, DOB 1830).

It doesn't seem likely she was an early (pre-marriage) child of Robert and Jane.

Might she have been a brother of Robert?

Another mystery :-)

Her name wasn't Mary, it was Louisa, according to the burials register.

Louisa Tooze Dudd, 27, of Sandhill St buried May 12th 1850.

There is no other Tooze or Dudd on the page.

The typed GRO index shows the name as Louis Tooze Dudd.

Offline avm228

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Re: Tooze or Dudd? A mystery in Ottery St Mary
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 08 October 14 12:07 BST (UK) »
I can't easily see who Louisa was either  ???

Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline avm228

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Re: Tooze or Dudd? A mystery in Ottery St Mary
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 08 October 14 12:11 BST (UK) »
Elizabeth, born 1835, had a number of children as a single woman, (Ellen, James and Frank) and then married an Ephraim Hoare in 1879 and had one child with him.


She seems also to have had Fred Tooze, baptised 20 July 1873, buried 6 October 1874 aged 1.

Possibly also William Tooze, buried 27 Feb 1861 (of Yonder St - which was her address in the 1861 census) - but no age is given for the deceased.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)


Offline johngosling

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Re: Tooze or Dudd? A mystery in Ottery St Mary
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 08 October 14 12:15 BST (UK) »
Thanks, that's interesting to know.

Elizabeth, born 1835, had a number of children as a single woman, (Ellen, James and Frank) and then married an Ephraim Hoare in 1879 and had one child with him.


She seems also to have had Fred Tooze, baptised 20 July 1873, buried 6 October 1874 aged 1.

Possibly also William Tooze, buried 27 Feb 1861 (of Yonder St - which was her address in the 1861 census) - but no age is given for the deceased.

Offline Marmalady

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Re: Tooze or Dudd? A mystery in Ottery St Mary
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 08 October 14 13:09 BST (UK) »
I would think the most logical reason for the use of the two surnames is illegitimacy of the father.

In my husbands tree I have someone who was born to unmarried-but-pretending-to-be-married parents --so registered under the fathers name of Plant. On the next census, he is with his paternal grandparents, but listed under his mothers name of Horobin.
Thereafter, he seems to use both names interchangeably --the fact he also used two christian names interchangeable just added to the complication! Some of his children are bpt as Plant , others as Horobin -- and thankfully a couple as "Horobin alias Plant"
In later life some of his children continued using Plant, others continued with Horobin
Wainwright - Yorkshire
Whitney - Herefordshire
Watson -  Northamptonshire
Trant - Yorkshire
Helps - all
Needham - Derbyshire
Waterhouse - Derbyshire
Northing - all

Offline avm228

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Re: Tooze or Dudd? A mystery in Ottery St Mary
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 08 October 14 13:18 BST (UK) »
I would think the most logical reason for the use of the two surnames is illegitimacy of the father.


I agree.  In which case one of the names is likely to be the mother's maiden name.  The other is most likely be either (1) the natural father's or (2) a stepfather's surname, taken on after the mother's subsequent marriage to someone other than the natural father.

On a different point, it is a pity that on the marriage to Jane there is no indication as to whether Robert was a bachelor or a widower. He was very much of an age to have been married before.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Online KGarrad

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Re: Tooze or Dudd? A mystery in Ottery St Mary
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 08 October 14 13:49 BST (UK) »
I would think the most logical reason for the use of the two surnames is illegitimacy of the father.


I agree.  In which case one of the names is likely to be the mother's maiden name.  The other is most likely be either (1) the natural father's or (2) a stepfather's surname, taken on after the mother's subsequent marriage to someone other than the natural father.

That's why I quoted that article on Devon Alias names!
There were many reasons why, in Devon & Cornwall, people were known as ... Alias ...! It was quite a usual thing, and almost peculiar to Devon and Cornwall.

Apart from the bastardy case - not borne out by evidence in that article - children from a previous marriage is shown as a distinct possibility! Inheritance is another.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline avm228

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Re: Tooze or Dudd? A mystery in Ottery St Mary
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 08 October 14 13:53 BST (UK) »
Was the Devon alias phenomenon still prevalent in the 19th century, though?

This suggests not:

http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/DevonMisc/AliasesDiscriminant.html
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)