Lookup Please Rayner

[olleym]

There is a Frederick Rayner born Q1 1893 in Basford, Notts. (7B 217)
A Frederick Rayner aged 2 died Q1 1895 in Basford, Notts. (7B 132)
A Frederick S Rayner did marry Lily Hook in Basford in Q2 1915

In the 1890's Basford was a registration district in its own right; confusingly stretching in to Derbyshire. Eastwood was in the Basford district and the 1901 census shows a Fred Rayner aged 9 living with Harry Rayner, 43 and 3 siblings John, Herbert and Ada in South Normanton, Derbyshire.
The more I write the more confused I get.
There was clearly more then one Rayner family in the area.

Without mentioning any living people, who is the closest Rayner ancestor about whom you are certain; then we can work backwards.

Mark

[crab4]

You are so right so confusing. I have a Frederick s Rayner and hook Lily.I have birth certs for a living member of family and it states Father Frederick Starr Rayner mother Hook
Then I have a cert  with deceased member Father Frederick Rayner mother(nee Rose )clara eugenie Rayner.B1903 Woolwich D1984
Are these the same people or different ?
Found Herbert Hook in Census
But not the Rayners

[CaroleW]

Who are you actually researching (ie) who is your direct ancestor?

Name/birthyear/birthplace

Who were his/her parents

[Annette7]

It sounds to me like you need the marriage certificate of Frederick S. Rayner and Lily Hook to confirm their ages, fathers etc.

It looks to me like they had 4 children - dau. born 1915 Basford, a dau. born in 1919 Basford, a dau. in Lewisham 1929 and a son 1932 Woolwich (won't name as could be still living).

I don't think that he and Clara Eugenie Rose were ever married.   On 1963 electoral roll Clara E. Rayner is with the 2nd daughter of Frederick and Lily Hook.   

You need the marriage certificate to confirm Frederick's full name, age, occupation and father.   There is no birth entry for a Frederick Starr Rayner, nor an obvious death entry with the sketchy details known.

How do you know that Lily Hook was the one bc.1893, dau. of Herbert?    There was also a Lily bc.1896 Hammersmith, London, dau. of a Henry, who was living in same place as other Lily on the last census.   

It doesn't look as Clara Eugenie had any children with Frederick Rayner although his dau. from marriage to Lily was with her in 1963.

Possibly he and Lily separated although she was definitely in London when last child born in 1932.  There are only a handful of entries for them on electoral rolls so they aren't an awful lot of help here.   If Lily went back to Nottinghamshire and Clara moved in the little ones may have grown up believing Clara was their mother.   All conjecture, of course,   

As has been asked already, who are you directly descended from - presumably one of the 3 children (mmn Hook).   You certainly can't make any progress on the Rayner side without knowing the details for him on the 1915 marriage certificate.

Annette

[avm228]

Hi - I agree with everything that's been said re the need for certificates, especially for the 1915 marriage as a first priority.

Regarding the unusual middle name, I notice that there is a birth for a John Starr Rayner in Chesterfield in 1887.  He may have died in the same district in 1958 (index says John S Rayner aged 70).

He may be a complete red herring and unconnected to your Frederick, but perhaps worth keeping a note of for when you have more to go on from the marriage certificate.

[crab4]

Frederick and Clara had a son in 1927 died 1961

[CaroleW]

What was the son's name.  You haven't answered my question re who is your direct ancestor.  Please see my earlier reply

[CaroleW]

Hi

From the info in your pm - your father appears to have been the child born 1932 - mothers maiden name Hook.

I understand that you were led to believe that Clara Eugenie was your grandmother. 

The 1932 electoral roll for Woolwich shows Frederick Starr Rayner and Clara LILY Rayner living at 28 Congo Rd.  As this is the year your father was born you need to check his birth cert to see what address is shown on it

Then I have a cert  with deceased member Father Frederick Rayner mother(nee Rose )clara eugenie Rayner.B1903 Woolwich D1984

The wording is a bit confusing - Whose cert do you have and what kind of cert is it??  Clara Eugenie Rose was born 1903 and died as Clara Eugenie Rayner in 1984.   However - it's unlikely her father would be shown as Rayner if she was born surname Rose so you need to clarify this part

The bottom line is that you need the 1915 marriage cert to get more info about Frederick & Lily.  If he was born as John Starr Rayner as suggested above - we need his fathers details from the marriage cert for confirmation.  It will also show his age and occupation which will help you find him on the 1911 census

[crab4]

I have birth cert confirming details of 28 congo road and have ordered marriage cert for lily hook and rayner