Author Topic: Need Help Understanding a Post in the Mariner's Index  (Read 8345 times)

Offline DCB

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Re: Need Help Understanding a Post in the Mariner's Index
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 28 November 13 11:24 GMT (UK) »
Mary's age may have been rounded down for 1841

The baptism for Jeremiah

father:   David Jones
mother:   Jane
Name: Jeremiah Jones
Christening Date: 27 Nov 1832
Christening Place: ZOAR INDEPENDENT, NEVIN, CAERNARVON
Birth Date: 20 Nov 1832

William?

father:   David Jones
mother:   Jane
Name: William Jones
Christening Date: 20 Jun 1832
Christening Place: ZOAR INDEPENDENT, NEVIN, CAERNARVON
Birth Date: 21 Oct 1831

A picture of the current houses at Bwlch Bredin copyright Google Maps

David

P.S. Jeremiah appears on the 1891 census as the brother of Mary. There is a burial for him on 25th September 1907, abode Henblas, Porthdinllaen.
In 1871 he has a wife, Elizabeth, and in 1901 he has a wife, Jane.

Offline welshpride

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Re: Need Help Understanding a Post in the Mariner's Index
« Reply #10 on: Friday 29 November 13 04:15 GMT (UK) »
Thank you David for your recent reply.  I am beginning to fear that there may have been two David and Jane Jones of Bwlch Bridin as a number of ages just aren't matching up, yet in census returns there appears to be just one family.  I have heard about the rounding of ages, but I thought that was only for adults and that kids were actually documented with their exact age.  At the same time, it appears absolute that my Elis (Ellis) Jones was born and baptized in 1820, yet the 1851 census records his age as 28.  As I mentioned earlier, it seems like there are a lot of oval pegs being fit into round holes.

I have a new question as well:  I have ordered the certified birth certificates from the GRO before.  It's been a while, but I have a number of them.  The problem I am having now is that the BMD Indexing that is available online only gives you a volume and page number to go by.  I would like to order certificates for all of these kids of David Jones but in some cases, there are two or three kids with the same name representing the same district and the same quarter year registration.  At nearly $18.00 a piece U.S. currency I don't want to order a bunch of certificates for the wrong people.  Any suggestions on how to weed out the incorrect ones?  I have baptism certificates for all of these kids, but would like to know their true birth dates and any further confirmation on parentage and abodes.

Also, what does Zoar Independent mean?  Obviously it sounds like a non-conformist church, but what religion would they be?

Thanks

Offline hiraeth

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Re: Need Help Understanding a Post in the Mariner's Index
« Reply #11 on: Friday 29 November 13 06:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi Steve

This page on the Genuki site has a little more information re the parish of Nefyn with a couple of useful links for merchant marine from the area

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CAE/Nefyn/index.html

Heather
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline DCB

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Re: Need Help Understanding a Post in the Mariner's Index
« Reply #12 on: Friday 29 November 13 10:22 GMT (UK) »
This site suggests that ages were rounded down for the over 15s, although I have found records where this doesn't happen - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Census_1841

This is another link on the Zoar Independent:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoar_Strict_Baptist_Chapel

With regard to narrowing down the search for the certificates, I am not sure if there is a cheap and easy way.
I have ordered from the local register office on occasions and they might be able to check the names of parents and abodes before ordering, although not all would provide this service. The details are often hand-written or typed, rather than photocopied, so open to interpretation.

I imagine that the local office would be Pwllheli but it might be Caernarfon. See - http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/gwy_doc.asp?doc=24923&Language=1&p=1&c=1

http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/gwy_doc.asp?cat=6726&doc=24310&language=1&p=1&c=1

David


Offline welshpride

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Re: Need Help Understanding a Post in the Mariner's Index
« Reply #13 on: Friday 29 November 13 14:29 GMT (UK) »
Thank you folks again.  I will look into all of this.  I do have several relatives working on this line in England.  I believe they actually can go to the records office and find these documents in person.  Perhaps if I send them a list of names and christening dates, they can track down the birth certificates.  I can tell you that I've gone backwards in the book of baptisms covering Nevin/Edeyrn area, back to the early 1800 period, and found that David Jones and wife Jane of Bwlch Bridin had about a dozen kids overall, so there are many names and dates to look up.

I am curious David, how did you find out the info on Jeremiah and William?  I looked at the website (Findmypast) with the scanned images of the baptism books and pages, where I found all of these kids prior to 1822, and there is no mention of Jeremiah and William in 1832.  I know you said they were christened in "Zoar Independent," so maybe the book I was looking at was a different church or religion.  That alone leads me to wonder if Jeremiah and William can be from the same David and Jane, since all the other kids were baptized accordingly, in the parish register for Nefyn/Edeyrn.

Also, I noted you actually had birth dates as well as baptism dates.  Might these be found on one of the website links you sent to me?

For the record, these are the known children I have for David and Jane Jones, and their baptism dates.  All abode locations for each of these were given as Blwch Bridin:

Richard - 22 August 1812
Hugh - 16 August 1814
Mary - 10 May 1817
Robert - 1 March 1819
Elis (Ellis) - 24 August 1820 ** my great, great, grandfather, I believe.
David - 27 July 1822......Buried - 8 December 1832

It's hard to understand why the gap between last child above - David in 1822 - and the latter two, in 1832.  You have kids pretty much every other year for ten years and then go ten years without any, and then two more???

William - 20 June 1832
Jeremiah - 27 November 1832

I also have as burial information, the following:

David Jones, Bwlch Bredin, Mariner, 21 March 1842, Age 56
Jane Jones, Bwlch Bridin, Widow, 21 July 1859, Age 73

I know that Bwlch Bridin, as an abode, is actually made up of several houses, clustered together. Someone please tell me that there isn't another one of the same name somewhere in the Portdinllaen/Nevin area.  Narrowing this all down to one residence is key, in my estimation, to creating an ironclad link between all of them.  I have had another instance, in a different branch of my Welsh tree, where I thought I identified everything correctly based on a residence named Ty Newydd.  Then I found out that there are/were about six Ty Newydds in each and every city in Wales!  Kind of blew my theories out of the water.  If all these Joneses, representing three generations, lived in Blwch Bridin over the course of at least 40-50 years, isn't it rational to expect that they were all related?

Offline DCB

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Re: Need Help Understanding a Post in the Mariner's Index
« Reply #14 on: Friday 29 November 13 15:16 GMT (UK) »
The records are in Familyseach

Search on Jones and enter the place as ZOAR INDEPENDENT,NEVIN,CAERNARVON,WALES

The Nefyn website says that it was erected in 1827 but the baptisms began in 1826

David

Offline hiraeth

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Re: Need Help Understanding a Post in the Mariner's Index
« Reply #15 on: Friday 29 November 13 16:34 GMT (UK) »
It's hard to understand why the gap between last child above - David in 1822 - and the latter two, in 1832.  You have kids pretty much every other year for ten years and then go ten years without any, and then two more???


I can think of a couple of reasons for a gap like this could occur - particularly if the father was away at sea on journeys which could take months if not years.   However it is more likely that the family baptized their children in the established church (parish baptisms as seen on FindMyPast) but converted to the non-conformist faith around the time the Zoar Chapel was built in the community.   As far as I know the non conformist records do not appear on FindMyPast at all.    It's also important to remember that baptisms did not all take place immediately after the birth of a child.   Perhaps the latter two baptisms took place some time after birth because the father was away at sea.

Heather
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Offline Billyblue

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Re: Need Help Understanding a Post in the Mariner's Index
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 30 November 13 02:30 GMT (UK) »
Another reason for the gap, apart from dad being at sea - miscarriages and/or stillbirths.

Not every pregnancy results in a babe in arms!

Dawn M
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Offline welshpride

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Re: Need Help Understanding a Post in the Mariner's Index
« Reply #17 on: Monday 02 December 13 11:58 GMT (UK) »
Can someone help me understand the definition of the abode name Bwlch Bridin?  I have found a definition online that claims Bwlch means "gap".  I have not been able to identify what Bridin means.  In my case, the name represents a cluster of side by side dwellings on Portdinllaen Beach.  The other dwelling name I am trying to track down would be the nearby "Barracks" or "Barrax."  I wasn't sure if this name truly meant barracks as you might find in the military, or if it meant something else.