Author Topic: KENNY family: Fermanagh to Gatineau, Quebec, Canada in1830.  (Read 41456 times)

Offline MacCionnaoith

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Re: KENNY family: Fermanagh to Gatineau, Quebec, Canada in1830.
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 11 July 12 10:11 BST (UK) »
Hi Don and our newly identified family members!

Don - I seem to have lost your e-mail address!

I have been really interested to see all comments. For what it is worth my "tuppence worth" is as follows:

My known ancestor William Kenny was born between 1831 and 1833 - family lore states that we were from Fermanagh (Enniskillen is usually cited - but given that the area is relatively unkown to Scots I have a feeling that when asked this was probably stated since most people have heard of this town).

William was a "journeyman shoemaker" and he first appears when he is married in Ayr, Scotland, in 1857. He was married to a Scots girl (Irish parentage) in the Trinity Church in Ayr - this was Anglican. His parents are stated as being William (a Tailor to trade - must have been born around 1800-1810??????) and Alice (maiden surname Kenny too??? - I find this doubtful - and more probable that William did not know his mother's surname???). Given Don's comments about his known family Wesleyan-Methodist roots - and the fact that we share the same male DNA - I am given to think that William was probably of the same persuasion - and that his wife perhaps swung him back to the "established church" (albeit the Irish established church - since Ayr is Presbyterian by majority).

William established himself in Scotland and had 12 children - Robert, Alice, Helen, Mary, William, John, McCandlish, Sarah, Janet, Elizabeth, Sarah (yes - another Sarah!) and James.

William's father was dead in 1857 and I am inclined to think that it is doubtful that he would simply have left his mother fend for herself following his father's death (the date being unknown at present - was he a child? was he in adulthood?)? This makes me think that he had other siblings. Most likely a "big brother" (given the Irish/Scots "naming system" - probably a Robert!) - since it is more common for junior family members to go out into the world "alone".

I am further inclined to think that "my" Alice either remarried (and took another name) or that she died between 1857 (her son's marriage) and 1864 (beleive this is when the deaths were officialy recorded from??? (may be incorrect here!).......or that she emigrated (since all the Alice Kenny death certificates which would put her in the correct age bracket were either unrelated OR died in workhouses - I cannot imagine that her son would let her die in this manner - surely he would have brought her to Scotland???????).....

William is "missing" from several later Scottish census polls - with his younger siblings (the older ones being married etc etc) - and then he reappears - I like to think that he may have been visiting family in Fermanagh at these times (since ALL people's in the house at time of census were recorded).

Given that Don and I are related genetically it would be great if any Kenny's who remain in the area would undertake a DNA test and if they had further info that would be spectacular!

I feel we are so so close - since there is no way that we are not linked - The Thomas and William in "Brooke's deeds" are brothers and so irrespective of the few "missing links" we must be their descendants.

I asked after Wesleyan-Methodist records for the area but the search proved "blank". I have the Parish information from PRONI and will have a look through to see if I can identify anyone in the CoI records. I will advise all parties should I find anything.

I have thought about sending letters to Kenny's in the area and taking a "shot in the dark".....using addresses from local directories...might be worth a little effort on this front..........but might be a little intrusive of people's privacy - so I will consider the morality of that potential action!

Best Regards

Billy


Offline MacCionnaoith

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Re: KENNY family: Fermanagh to Gatineau, Quebec, Canada in1830.
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 11 July 12 10:24 BST (UK) »
.........oh...................a further note to Garvary!

You are interested in the Kenny surname in general..and your numerously cited points are ALL correct...making it so difficult to establish which Kenny's everyone with the surname is descended from....a cause of frustration!

Don and I also share the same DNA (a few "steps out" - but sharing a "common ancestor") as a family bearing the surnames O'Rourke and Roarc........

......given the "relative" geography of the Fermanagh border to Leitrim (I believe the O'Rourke's were "Princes of Leitrim") I think there is a possiblity that we tend to be of the Gaelic persuasion (and not the English/Norman).................and that we may be a small family group whose origin has been one located in the conjectural homelands of Roscommon and Galway ("Chiefs of Muintir Kenny").....taking a few centuries to move North!


Offline MacCionnaoith

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Re: KENNY family: Fermanagh to Gatineau, Quebec, Canada in1830.
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 11 July 12 10:27 BST (UK) »
.....or that these O'Rourke's are actually Kenny's.........now there's a story!

Offline donkenny

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Re: KENNY family: Fermanagh to Gatineau, Quebec, Canada in1830.
« Reply #30 on: Thursday 26 July 12 23:23 BST (UK) »
Hi Billy and all:

It is really great to hear from you. This chat is not quite over yet, obviously.

My email address will be sent via Roots Chat’s personal mail. My previous address was lost when Canada.Com abandoned us.

In Canada, at least, we have no hesitation in sending letters and making telephone cold calls in hopes of finding ancestral info. I think a little diplomacy is all that is needed (and keeping time zones in mind).

‘dcgb’ contacted me  a little later on. It turns out that he only lives about an hour away from here (Ottawa, Ontario). I hope to get a copy of his grandmothers brother’s letter. These things take time.

I’ve got a few bits to add, as follows:


Fermanagh (Brooke) Deeds

D998/26/60 : 3 Oct. 1773 Lease from Arthur Brooke, Colebrooke, Co. Fermanagh, to Wm Kenny, Tattinbarr, Co. Fermanagh, of one-third of the lands of Tattinbarr, Co. Fermanagh, for the lives of Wm Kenny, James Kenny and Edward Kenny, at a rent of £8 together with 12 pence per pound Receivers fees, eight days work of man and horse and eight fat hens or tenpence in lieu of each hen.


D998/26/61 : 3 Oct. 1773 Lease from Arthur Brooke, Colebrooke, Co. Fermanagh, to Thomas Kenny, Tattinbarr, Co. Fermanagh, of one-third of the lands of Tattinbarr, Co. Fermanagh, for the lives of Thomas Kenny, Thomas Kenny and John Kenny, at a rent of £8 10s. 0d. together with 12 pence per pound Receivers fees, eight days work of man and horse and eight fat hens or tenpence in lieu of each days work and fourpence in lieu of each hen.

D998/26/434 : 10 Aug. 1824 Lease from Henry Brooke, Colebrooke, Co. Fermanagh, to George Kenny, Tattinbarr, Co. Fermanagh, of 12a. 2r. 26p. of Tattinbarr, Co. Fermanagh, for the lives of John Kenny and Wm Kenny: (1) Reserves right to make a road; (2) Rent £6 6s. 7d.; (3) Three days work of man and horse and three hens or fifteen pence in lieu of each days work and sixpence in lieu of each hen; and, (4) Corn, etc, to be ground at mill of Henry Brooke, payment for not doing so £5.

Garvary reports that William and Thomas are brothers.

The second lease lists two Thomas Kenny’s, who I assume were father and son. Each generation at that time would be around 30 years apart. Therefore Thomas senior would be roughly 50 years old, and the son roughly 20.

Neither would be the husband of my Alice, as Alice was born around 1779, and her husband who we assume to be a Royal Artilleryman, would have been born around 1778. A prime age for joining the military would be 18 – 20. Thomas served 18 years, retiring from the service at age 36 – 38, again a reasonable span of service for the lucky ones.

My conclusion is that we have to have 3 Thomas’s, the first born about 1725 and the third dying about 1825-30?

William Kenny might be an ancestor of Billy Kenny of Prestwick, Scotland. Billy is my DNA cousin.

George is at least the next generation, and I guess could be a son of Thomas, but more likely William, as that branch appears to have stayed in the UK.



William Kenny – papist

PRONI Site Search (proni.gov.uk) – 1766 Religious Census

I only found the following, but the Religion entry is HUGE!

Index :         1766 Religious Census
Surname :      Kenny
Forename :      William
Townland :   
Parish :      Kinawley
County :      Fermanagh
Religion :      Papist
Number in Family :   
Original Documents :   The original documents referred to in this index DO NOT exist. No further information, other than that recorded above, has survived.


William could be a member of my line. His location is within 12 miles of my g-g-grandfather’s townland. Plus, William is a common first name in our Kenny lines.

This is the first documentation that potentially indicates our Kenny line was once Roman Catholic. This one item opens up whole new avenues for further exploration.

So Neil, we may yet establish a closer connection than either of us originally thought!



West Virginia.   Mary Jane Kenny

Mary Jane Kenny appears to have married William Moneypenny at Maguire’s Bridge in County Fermanagh sometime after 1790. Maguire’s Bridge is only several miles from Tattenbarr, our Kenny Townland.

William and Mary Jane eventually settled in central West Virginia. There were a number of Fermanagh families who preceded or followed them to W.Va. at about the same time.

Given the circumstantial evidence, it seems quite possible that she is closely connected to our line.

I have to send this summary in a separate reply, due to the word limit in Rootschat.


Dr. Tyrone Bowes - Surname Association Site

I very recently contacted Dr Tyrone Bowes. He uses our 37 maker DNA to help determine the who and where of our ancestors. The web site is: ‘http://www.irishorigenes.com’. We are still working at getting started, and if we can make any progress, I’ll report back to you all.

Many thanks,
Don.


Offline donkenny

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Re: KENNY family: Fermanagh to Gatineau, Quebec, Canada in1830.
« Reply #31 on: Friday 27 July 12 05:03 BST (UK) »
Mary Jane Kenny

Irish Origin of the Moneypenny & Kenny Families of W. Va
by David Armstrong, 201 Graham St, Elkins, WV, 26241

Moderator Note: cut & paste details removed- please see link to view same information:

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/HCPD/2003-01/1041883705

Offline donkenny

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Re: KENNY family: Fermanagh to Gatineau, Quebec, Canada in1830.
« Reply #32 on: Friday 27 July 12 17:16 BST (UK) »
Hi aghadowey:

I still have a lot to learn here. Your presentation solution is so much better than mine.

Thank you.

Don.

Offline MacCionnaoith

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Re: KENNY family: Fermanagh to Gatineau, Quebec, Canada in1830.
« Reply #33 on: Monday 30 July 12 14:27 BST (UK) »
Hi everyone!

Plan of attack as follows:

1) I will start to annoy the Fermanagh Kenny's as previously cited.....

2) I will send a letter to Viscount Brookeborough and ask if any recorded exist within his noted family which may provide additional information for genealogy purposes

www.number10.gov.uk/news/lord-lieutenant-county-fermanagh/

3) never thought to look at any Catholic records - so will ascertain if any records exist for the general area for any Kenny's recorded

4) my ancestors were all militia men - indicating a strong military background - and all subsequent descendants served in WWI and WWII - I remember noting military service for 2 Kenny's in Co. Leitrim around the time of Don's research too (so will revisit that one)

5) attached is an image of my ggg grandfather (Robert Kenny born 1864) - my gggrandfather (William Kenny born 1884) is standing behind him - for general interest

Hope to have some results soon!

Offline jazznblues

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Re: KENNY family: Fermanagh to Gatineau, Quebec, Canada in1830.
« Reply #34 on: Tuesday 31 July 12 01:46 BST (UK) »
Hello Gentlemen,

Hopefully, I am not hijacking this thread and what I am posting is not relevant but I have some Kenny's in my ancestry and thought I'd see if my information relates to yours or maybe our paths cross.

Dorina Kenny- my grandmother (married Gibbs)

Great Grandparents

Stephen Kenny (Oct 6, 1871 to 1954)
Elizabeth Hebert (B:1878-1964)
Married: April 1898

Great Great Grandparents

John Kenny (b:1836)
Anne Theriault (Nov 13, 1833)

Isaie Hebert
Catherine Pelletier

****from this point is where I am not sure if it is correct***

Great Great Great Grandparents

Mark Kenney/Kenny Sr.- 1805 or 1815

Great Great Great Great Grandparents


William Kenny (B:1748, D:1852)


I may be in the wrong spot but thought I'd give it a shot.

jazznblues
Marc

Offline donkenny

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Re: KENNY family: Fermanagh to Gatineau, Quebec, Canada in1830.
« Reply #35 on: Tuesday 31 July 12 04:06 BST (UK) »
Hi Marc:

Thank you for the posting. I'm sure glad you decided to 'give it a shot'.

Our paths do cross in the Carleton (Ottawa) Ontario area, but not likely in New Brunswick. Some years ago we were given a package that documented a Kenny family in the Goulbourn, Ontario area, and one of the names was Mark Kenny.

At that time I did not see any close connection to this Kenny family. Now, I’m not so sure.

Your contribution is wonderful stuff, and I will be digging out the details and getting back to the group after I review my documents.

I used the ‘Brideau Gibbs Kenny’ Family Tree on Ancestory.com to pinpoint your Kenny line and locations.

Until a little later,

Don.