James and Christina GUNN - Disappeared after the 1841 census?

[Beg Clonrode...]

Hi all...

Is anyone able to find James and Christina (Christian/Chirsty) GUNN after the 1841 census.

FreeCen Home Page
http://freecen.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

Don't know how to link to the 1841 census sorry.

James aged 40, Christina aged 30, Donald aged 7, William aged 5, Mary aged 1

Plus George aged 35 years. Possibly an uncle of the children.

Piece: SCT1841/38
Place: Latheron -Caithness
Enumeration District: 3
Civil Parish: Latheron
Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 0
Page: 2
Address: Brehungy


I'm actually looking for their daughter Mary but the nearest I can find to her is the following 1861 census entry - a Mary GUNN living with her Uncle George.


Don't know how to link to the 1861 census sorry.

George aged 58, Mary aged 21, Isabella aged 10

Piece: SCT1861/38
Place: Latheron -Caithness
Enumeration District: 7
Civil Parish: Latheron
Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Berriedale
Folio: 0
Page: 1
Schedule: 4
Address: Balnabruich/dunbeath

Any help appreciated.

Regards
Beg

[MonicaL]

Hi Beg

I can't easily see an entry for the family together in 1851 either - maybe something happened to parents after the 1841 census entry you have? On that 1841 census, there is also a George Gunn showing with James and family. Fits well as a likely uncle to Mary in that 1861 census you have.

There are a couple of possibilities which I am sure you have seen in 1851, a Mary with a 'cousin' Helen McGregor (at Balnabruich where you found that possible 1861 entry I think) and a Mary working as a domestic servant (Bremner household in Wick).

Monica 

[MonicaL]

There are member submitted IGI entries for the sons of a Donald GUNN in Houstry, Latheron (maybe more, but just the ones I looked for):

James chr. 14 Sept 1794
George chr. 2 Dec. 1801
John chr. 15 Jan 1806 *

* From the 1861 census entry you found for Uncle George and Mary, there was also the 10 yr old niece Isabella you mentioned. I thought she shows as living with parents John and Henrietta in 1851 as a 7 month old.

Monica

[Beg Clonrode...]

Hello Monica,

Thanks very much for helping out :-)

The ages of the brothers you posted (James, George and John) are near enough to make me think the 1841 Mary and 1861 Mary are one and the same.

I'm trying to find a Mary GUNN b.1840-ish in Caithness who migrated to NZ in about 1859-60. Am slowly working my way through a list from Scotlands People.

If you're interested the original thread is here...

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,591314.0.html

All the best
Beg

[MonicaL]

Beg, you are doing a great job there on the NZ board trying to help out Russ  I will make any comments here on the Scottish Caithness board and leave you to follow through on the NZ board as you think best.

What were the names of the children of Andrew and Mary, in order and including any middle names used (particularly useful if they were surnames as middle names!). Wondering whether Mary may have used any form of naming pattern for the names of her children (many sites/links on this, one here that I like www.halmyre.abel.co.uk/Family/naming.htm). I can see the first born son Henry in 1864 from what has been posted?

The main key info I have now seen for Mary is that her birth place was in the Parish of Thurso in Caithness (this map here shows you parishes for Caithness).

The Mary we were looking at earlier was born in Latheron, some distance away.

The Mary you found earlier and mention in the other post would have fitted very well (daughter of Donald)....except the family show in Canada by 1851 (supported by the remarks on their 1841 freecen entry:

I have found a new Mary, showing as Maria in 1851 which might fit (Ancestry have made a mess of this transcription, this is from freecen):

John Gunn 60, (Pauper) Organ Player, b. Paris
Elizbeth Welch Gunn 50, b. Liverpool England
William Gunn 19, fisher b. Thurso
Jane Gunn 18 b. Stromness, Orkney
Elizbeth Gunn 17 b. Thurso
Maria Gunn 12 b. Thurso
Ann Gunn 9 b. Thurso
Rose Gunn 6 b. Thurso

Address: East Side Of Church Yd, Thurso

For 1841, Maria is showing as Mona:

John Gunn 42, ship's carpenter b. Foreign parts
Betsey Gunn 34 b. England
John Gunn 18
William Gunn 15
Jane Gunn 13
Betsey Gunn 7
Mona Gunn 3

Address:  Thurso Shore Street

As before, will be a case of getting additonal info to include or exclude this family and Maria/Mona. The names of Mary and  Andrew's children may help for this (hopefully!).

Monica

[MonicaL]

Promisingly, there is no sign of Maria in 1861 with the family. Again from freecen, Elizabeth is showing as Alice (not sure why! Original image would need to be viewed for this) and a widow by now:

Alice Welsh 60, musician's widow b. Ireland
Jean Gunn 26, currier b. Stromness, Orkney
Elizabeth Gunn 24 b. Thurso
Rosie Gunn 16 b. Thurso
Henry Matherson 2 grandchild b. Thurso (from IGI, mother looks to be Jane/Jean)

Address: Fisherbuildings, Thurso

It was common in Scotland for widows and sometimes married women to go by their maiden surname (particularly in the earlier censuses). By law, women in Scotland never lost their maiden surnames and will often use their surnames as above.

[MonicaL]

Some details (all submitted entries) show on IGI which don't look accurate at all - a better source will be SP although I am not sure necessarily from what I can see so far that there will be much formal record in the OPRs for this family. There are a couple of OPR birth entries showing on IGI, but just father John named so hard to say whether they could be the right ones (with no baby's name or wife's name).

This looks to be youngest Rosie's death in the US https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XZGK-64P - her age looks a good six year light at death, I would estimate her death at age as at least 92!

[Beg Clonrode...]

EDIT: Hello Monica....have just skimmed your latest posts. Will digest tomorrow but am off to bed

Here's what I was about to post :-)


Hello Monica,

Thanks for your interest. Local knowledge makes a big difference.

I was downplaying the Thurso connection as I'm not sure if it's right. It was mentioned on a RootsWeb tree in the original thread but Russ (the original poster) seems to think the tree is wrong. I settled on Caithness, less specific but more than likely the correct county.

Having said that :-) I've been looking at a Margaret GUNN bapt.28 Apr 1840 in Thurso. Daughter of Alexander and Elizabeth formerly DUNBAR. Have found her in 1841 and 1851 censuses. Not yet found her in 1861, although she may have married. Will resume the hunt on the weekend.

The main problem though (which you've alluded to) is that even if we find a likely candidate in Scotland it will be next to impossible to make a definite connection to NZ. I've drawn a blank with both Aus and NZ passenger lists for a Mary GUNN aged 19-ish.

And pre-1880 marriage certificates in NZ are very basic. No mention of parents unfortunately.

Mary is married and living in NZ by 1863 so I'm thinking that she arrived on one of the many ships for which passenger lists no longer exist.

The naming conventions you mentioned are helpful but there are only two children that I can see - a Henry b.1865 and a Mary Christina b.1877 Possibly Russ knows of more. I'll make him aware of your replies.

Thanks again for your help.

All the best
Beg

[MonicaL]

This can all wait for another day, Beg 

Mmm, was hoping the Thurso ref was stronger than you say. There are not that many Mary Gunns in her birth year range b. Caithness showing in the earlier censuses, but enough to confuse as always.

Monica