Stayed in UK, emigrated elsewhere, or taken up by aliens?

[ancestorsnoop]

John Williams, born cal. 1797, in Pontesbury, Shropshire, died 26 Dec 1856, Abersychan, Trevethin, Monmouth.  Married 1820, Pontesbury.
Elizabeth Thomas, born cal. 1793, Birmingham, Warwickshire.
Children:
1.  Mary Ann, chr. 1821, Pontesbury, md. John Bradney/Bradley, 5 Aug 1839, Pontesbury.
2.  John, chr. 1824, Ponetsbury.
3. Thomas, chr. 1826, Pontesbury. 
4.  Elizabeth, chr. 1829, Pontesbury, md. Edward Swayn, 29 Jan 1854, Trevethin.  Had a son Edwin Swain Williams, born 11 Jan 1851, Abersychan.
5.  Moses Williams, chr. 1833, Pontesbury.
6.  Aaron Williams, chr. 1837, Pontesubury.

They were coal miners & iron miners.
  Last saw #2 John & #3 Thomas on 1841 census in Pontesbury with the family.
  Last saw #4 Elizabeth, Edward Swayne, #5 Moses, #6 Aaron on 1851 census in Abersychan, Trevethin, Monmouthshire, with the family.
  Last saw mother Elizabeth, and grandson Edwin Swain Williams on 1861 census in Abersychan, Trevethin, together.
  Mary Ann is my ancestor, she & her husband ran the pub/inn the Lamb & Flag in Abersychan, about 1854-1862. They immigrated to the USA in 1862.  (I don't need more on her, but I would love more about the Lamb & Flag and what happened to Mary Ann's mom & siblings.) 

[Christine47]

I don't know what you have found since your original posting but all three Bradley brothers left Pontesbury at the same time. My "brother " and his family went to live in Norton Canes, Staffordshire a newly established mining area and John Bradley and his family became Mormens and emigrated to UTAH. If you search on Eli Bradley Pontesbury you will find all about the family. Another good site is called BeesoJones.

[ancestorsnoop]

Since posting I have ordered a death certificates for Elizabeth [Williams] Swayne, who died 9 April 1858, in Abersychan, Trevethin, Monmouthshire.  Her husband Edward Swaine, probably died 2 years later in Oct-Dec 1860, in Pontypool District.

I haven't been able to order Elizabeth (Thomas) Williams's death certificate, since there are about 10 Elizabeth Williams dying between the years 1861 & 1871 in Pontypool District.  I am not even sure if I ordered them all if I would be able to identify which one was her (though age might eliminate some of them).

I tried looking for the Williams family on English census records, but the possibilities listed as born in Pontesbury so far have turned out to be other people.  I have even tried looking for Moses and Aaron Williams in the US census records, but born in England or Wales is not that helpful.  My only hope is if a descendant contacts me, if there are any.

Finding information about the Lamb and the Flag Inn, in Abersychan, Trevethin, is equally elusive.
(Maybe around 1867 it changed its name to New Inn.)  My father went to Abersychan probably in the 1970s.  He said that the building that housed the pub no longer stands but was torn down April 15, 1978.  It was a three-story building that stood at No. 50 High Street.  (On the 1861 census, when the Bradley's occupied the Lamb and the Flag they were listed as living on Main Street.  Was there a name change in the street?)  It was know to have a meeting room on the second floor.  The Salvation Army held meetings there at a later date.  The building next door, which was probably part of the Lamb and Flag, held vats in the back for brewing beer or ale.
 
My Dad has a picture of the building before it was torn down.  It is all boarded up and has a for sale sign on it.  He also took a picture of what is there now, a small park with just a park bench.  Someone told him that before the building was torn down there was a newspaper article
about the building and pub.  My Dad said that the L&F was run by a company that provided the beer for it and other pubs they owned.  He said either a pub up the street from it or the Company had a nice picture of the L&F.

I have some information on the Bradney/Bradley family, but also some have questions.  I recently ordered the death certificate of Sophia [Mitchel Jones] Bradley.  I can no longer find the BeesoJones site.

[Christine47]

 Elizabeth Thomas was born in Birmingham, are there any of the ones you have found saying place of birth.  I found an Elizabeth Williams living with her daughter Elizabeth and family aged 92 on a census.  Her husband had died before John Bradley took his family to Utah and I have seen him listed as innkeeper Lamb & Flag. Maybe when they left Elizabeth moved to live with her daughter. There are a few Moses Williams but not in that area of Wales. I've looked for the BeesoJones site and can no longer find it.  It's a shame as it was a very informative site.

[ancestorsnoop]

I am assuming Elizabeth (Thomas) Williams died between the 1861 & 1871 census since I can't find her on the 1871 census.  On the 1861 census she was a widow with just her grandson Edwin Swain Williams living with her.  I think he was living with her because his parents Edward Swaine & Elizabeth Williams were dead.  I have the father John Williams's death certificate which lists "Jhon Bradley" as the informant. 

The question is are they are hiding in plain sight (I wish I was rich so I could order all the possible death certificates for the mother, children, and grandson), or did they emigrate?           

[Christine47]

I found John and Elizabeth on the 1851 census with a grandson Edwin and on the next census a granddaughter Ann. Looking at these children I think they are Thomas's children not Elizabeth's children. Thomas's wife is called Hannah. Another interesting site I have found is Homer Duncan and this is the company that organised their journey to Utah. It gives the names of the people on the waggon trains, including the Bradley's and extracts written by various people of their journey. I have gone down the list and there are no Williams at that time so they must be in the UK. I'm looking forward to reading this as its only recently that I found out why they eventually settled in Utah.

[ancestorsnoop]

I believe this is Elizabeth Thomas Williams on the 1861 Census in Abersychan, Trevethin.
Sushannah Silding, head, w, 80, Shropshire, Kingswood
Elizabeth Williams, lodger, w, 68, Warwickshire, Birmingham
Edwin S. Williams, grandson, 14, scholar, Monmouth, Trevithin

I have Edwin Swain Williams birth certificate (I ordered the wrong one the first time).  He was illegitimate and it only gives his mother's name on the certificate.  I am assuming his father was the Edward Swayn, lodger, unmarried, 22, ironstone miner, born in Pontesbury, Shropshire, that was living with the family on the 1851 census.  It appears his parents married 3 years after his birth:  http://monfh.org.uk/rootswebsite/trev-marr-s.htm

[ancestorsnoop]

This is my latest update of my elusive Williams family.

John Williams, born cal. 1797, in Pontesbury, Shropshire, died 26 Dec 1856, Abersychan, Trevethin, Monmouth.  Married 1820, Pontesbury.
Elizabeth Thomas, born cal. 1793, Birmingham, Warwickshire. (Last saw on the 1861 census with grandson Edwin Swain Williams.)
Children:
1.  Mary Ann, baptized 1821, Pontesbury, md. John Bradney/Bradley, 5 Aug 1839, Pontesbury. (She and her family emigrated in 1862, and I have their information.)
2.  John, baptized 1824, Pontesbury. (Last saw on 1841 census in Pontesbury with the family.)
3. Thomas, baptized 1826, Pontesbury. (Last saw on 1841 census in Pontesbury with the family.) 
4.  Elizabeth, baptized 1829, Pontesbury, died 9 Apr 1858, Abersychan; md. Edward Swayn, 29 Jan 1854, Trevethin. Edward Swayn, baptized 1826, Pontesbury, died Oct/Dec 1860, Pontypool district. They had a son Edwin Swain Williams, born 11 Jan 1851, Abersychan. (Last saw on the 1861 census with grandmother Elizabeth Thomas Williams.)
5.  Moses Williams, baptized 1833, Pontesbury, died 29 Mar 1857, Abersychan.
6.  Aaron Williams, baptized 1837, Pontesubury. (Last saw on 1851 census in Abersychan, Trevethin, Monmouthshire, with the family.)
They were coal miners & iron miners.

I thought one of these deaths would be for Elizabeth Thomas Williams, but neither one of them had the right husband).
Death: ELIZABETH WILLIAMS, age 75, GRO Reference: 1869 S Quarter, in PONTYPOOL, Volume 11A, Page 75.
Death: ELIZABETH WILLIAMS, age 68, GRO Reference: 1863 S Quarter, in PONTYPOOL, Volume 11A, Page 78.

I found a possible Aaron Williams.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=787115.0

I would appreciate any clues or information on this family.

[ancestorsnoop]

Update:
2.  John, baptized 1824, Pontesbury, married Sarah Goodall Birt, 18 Nov 1848, Llanfihangel Pontymoel, Monmouthshire, died in Danville, Montour, Pennsylvania, USA.
3. Thomas, baptized 1826, Pontesbury. (Last saw on 1851 census in Bedwelty, Monmouthshire, lodging with Elizabeth Norris, his brother John is listed as a visitor.) 
6.  Aaron Williams, baptized 1837, Pontesbury, married Mary Birt (his brother John's stepdaughter), about 1863/1864, USA, and died 2 Jan 1906, Mahoning, Montour, Pennsylvania, USA.

I am trying to find out what happened to my 3rd great grandmother Elizabeth Thomas Williams.  Did the family all emigrate and leave their mother behind?  What happened to her son Thomas Williams and her grandson Edwin Swain Williams. 

I could also use some census searching tips, because searching for Thomas Williams, born about 1826, in Pontesbury, on the 1851 census never came up with the right one.  When I realized he might still be in Monmouthshire (he was a witness to John's marriage) on the 1851 census I just searched for Thomas Williams, born about 1826, living in Monmouthshire, and went down the list until I found him (right age, miner, and born in Pontesbury).