Author Topic: Martin, Whittingham, Galbraith Short Family  (Read 7266 times)

Offline MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,560
  • Girl with firewood, Morar 1910 - MEM Donaldson
    • View Profile
Re: Martin, Whittingham, Galbraith Short Family
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 03 June 14 16:24 BST (UK) »
Can't see a Scottish birth for him at all. Ev too looked before and nothing showed for her either  :-\ You can do free general searches yourselves on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk You only have to pay/use units to view search results or images. There are four entries in Scotland for the births of a William Short between 1910-12. You would have to view the actual image to see the name of parents.

I can't see a marriage either for your grandparents Leslie and Louisa in the UK either. Do you know when or where they married?. You say your mum was born 1953. Was this in the UK or in South Africa. It is only because you mentioned your Short family arriving in SA in 1959.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,560
  • Girl with firewood, Morar 1910 - MEM Donaldson
    • View Profile
Re: Martin, Whittingham, Galbraith Short Family
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 03 June 14 16:44 BST (UK) »
I don't think you have mentioned elsewhere, and might help hopefully in trying to find anything further back. What was the name of Leslie's mother?

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline doddsie4

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 667
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Martin, Whittingham, Galbraith Short Family
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 03 June 14 17:25 BST (UK) »
     On Scotlands People, if you type in George Martin and make the birth range 1946 to 1946, then for county,  it is Lanark.      The district is Dalziel.      That gets it.     If you are looking for anything else for Motherwell, try making the district Dalziel.  Let me know if you still can't get it.      Only drawback is that this is such a recent birth that you can't open up the certificate on screen.     You  have to buy it and get it sent to you.

Offline bantumi69

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Martin, Whittingham, Galbraith Short Family
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 04 June 14 04:58 BST (UK) »
guys i really appreciate all your help on this.  From what i gather the mother of leslie ties up with whats here being elizabeth denton, some people thought it was paton, but all that dates and stuff add up.  My mom says she was born in the UK in motherwell, but i dont really believe her at the moment and am now thinking she might have been born here in south africa.  S. E. S edited. is her full name.  and again thank you guys so much.  I tried the search but it comes up saying i have to pay 7 pounds to view the results and there was only one result for george martin, tried the same thing with james jack martin in 1916, but got nothing at all when i tried glasgow city, glasgow cause thats where i was told he comes from.


Offline MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,560
  • Girl with firewood, Morar 1910 - MEM Donaldson
    • View Profile
Re: Martin, Whittingham, Galbraith Short Family
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 04 June 14 09:25 BST (UK) »
Memories sometimes get confused over time...You may not find people's BMDs where you have been led to believe you might find them.

You naturally have two lines to follow up on:

Your father's side - Martin & Whittingham.


This seems much more straightforward. Ev and Doddsie have added lots of details here already:

  • Their marriage: James Martin / Mary Whittingham marriage 1940 Dalziel , Lanark.
  • Likely Mary's death: Mary Martin(other surname Whittingham) death 2006 , Motherwell Lanark , born c1920.
  • George James W Martin born at Motherwell/Dalziel in 1946.
  • Your Dad, George James Whittingham Martin, came to South Africa on his own, at the age of 18 c. 1964

Given the years involved, you cannot view any of these certificates online due to data protection/privacy issues. See these help notes for guidance on availability of records on SP www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Content/Help/index.aspx?r=554&413

Scottish marriage certs are really informative and include full names of parents for bride and groom. Once you have confirmed the details from the 1940 marriage for your paternal grandparents, you should be able to work back to next generation with that info. Gets easier to find details the further back you go, but bear in mind there will still be cut off for viewing material online for births during the last 100 years.

I will do a separate post below on your mum side...

Monica

Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline bantumi69

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Martin, Whittingham, Galbraith Short Family
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 04 June 14 09:35 BST (UK) »
thank you, all this is going into a couple of docs and then i can try from there, so the most obvious step would be to maybe get my mom and dads marriage cert., then my grandparents and so on i think then at least i can get names, follow the names up with birth certs. and death certs, i hope thats right at least.  No way around me having to pay obviously which i will do, rand to pound is a massive jump though haha.

Offline MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,560
  • Girl with firewood, Morar 1910 - MEM Donaldson
    • View Profile
Re: Martin, Whittingham, Galbraith Short Family
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 04 June 14 09:45 BST (UK) »
Your maternal side is a lot more tricky all round isn't it.

From what I have read of everyone's research, some of it added as links to this thread, you have the names Galbraith and Short.

In essence, question mark on the birth of Robert Galbraith born in England c. 1839 (not Scotland, according to 1841 and 1851 censuses for him and adopted family/Uncle Richard Short and wife). He was given the surname of Short by his Uncle Short. This line then became Short, although Galbraith was used as a middle name for children down the line. He may have been illegitimate and the issue of a Sea Captain father just a story. It is thought that Aunt Short might have been Galbraith and there is a Scottish link to her. He left for St Helena to live and trade there (likely died there too?).

He married an Elizabeth Denton, school mistress from Hull England, on 23rd June 1863 in Jamestown, St Helena and had children. Not clear when Elizabeth died. I found potentially an additional daughter, Jane born c. 1890, not listed in that earlier list of children for Robert and Elizabeth. If correct, maybe Elizabeth died after this year.

One of their children, named after his father, a Robert Galbraith Short born on 13 July 1875 in St Helena. This we think is your grandfather (although you thought he was born closer to 1869 - the dates quoted look specific and likely to have been researched from St Helena registers - you would need to double check these sources really to satisfy yourself on dates etc).

We have your Grandfather showing in England as a student in 1891 - linked above from the English census/family search.

At this point, I cannot see any more trace of your grandfather, nor his son, your father Leslie William Short's birth or marriage.

When I asked if you knew the name of your grandfather Robert (b.1875) Galbraith Short's wife, you are getting confused with your gg grandfather Robert (born c.1839). We know it was Robert (1839) who married Elizabeth Denton and is your gg grandmother on your mother's side. She was mother to Robert b. 1875. So we have:

Robert Galbraith Short b. 1839 m. Elizabeth Denton in 1863 St Helena
Robert Galbraith Short b. 1875 in St Helena m. who/when/where?
Leslie William Short b. circa 1911 but where? and married Loiusa Bothney Von Kerken but when and where did they marry?

That is as far as I can see!

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline bantumi69

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Martin, Whittingham, Galbraith Short Family
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 04 June 14 10:34 BST (UK) »
its a really huge help to have it all summerized like this and gives me a bit to go on, the only way forward is to get some legal docs which i will have to pay for and take it from there.  You have bean an amazing help, if you were in south africa i would have treated you to dinner lol.

Offline MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,560
  • Girl with firewood, Morar 1910 - MEM Donaldson
    • View Profile
Re: Martin, Whittingham, Galbraith Short Family
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 04 June 14 11:11 BST (UK) »
 ;D Let us know how you get on with your searches please - everyone loves to hear how searches work out in the longer run.

Monica  :)
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk