Smelt Surname

[Falconer66]

Wonder if some kind soul can help?

My great grandfather Thomas William Smelt was born in Beverley in 1859. There is a military birth record stating '15th Regiment'. In the 1861 and 1871 censuses he is at home with his parents in Beverley. In 1881 he is missing, but another Thomas William Smelt appears for the first time giving his birth date as 1854 and place of birth as Buttevant. The first TWS does not appear in the records again until his death in 1927 aged 67.

My theory is that they may be the same man, and I wonder if someone can tell me -

Is SMELT a recognised irish surname? and is it likely that the 15th regiment were stationed at Buttevant and he may have been born there?

Thanks.........

[heywood]

Hello Falconer,
welcome to Rootschat.
As you say:
Thomas William Smelt born 1859 Beverley is in Free BMD index.
Where is the military birth record?
As you say he is with his parents and in 1861 his father is 19 yrs and is a cordwainer.
Are you saying that you have lost your gt grandfather after 1871?
best wishes
heywood

[heywood]

I'm back again

Am I right- Thomas William Smelt of Beverley is your ancestor?
If so, do you have your grandparent details (his child)?

Or are you trying to establish which TW is yours?

Thomas W died 1927 Kettering
There was a marriage for Thomas W Smelt to Alice Martin 1915 in Kettering. Is this the same person?

[Falconer66]

Hi,

Thanks for the response.

My grandfather was Ethelbert James Smelt born Derby in 1892, the son of TWS.

I have the TWS born 1859 you found in BDM (SMELT Thomas W Beverley Sept Quarter 1859 9d 104)  and I have a military birth record in GRO Regimental Birth Indices 1761 - 1904

(SMELT Thomas W Beverley 1859 15th Regiment 901 21)

In the absence of any other records I have assumed these are the same birth.

Two years later the 1861 census shows TWS aged 1 living in Beverley with his parents Samual and Sarah.
His mother Sarah dies in 1868 and in 1869 his father marries for a second time to Elizabeth Wiles.
Samual gives his occupation as Cordwainer.

Ten years later the 1871 census shows TWS aged 11 living in Beverley with his father Samual, step-mother Elizabeth and step-sisters Martha and Ann Elizabeth. Samual gives his occupation as a Drummer in the East Yorks Militia.

In the 1881 census TWS born Beverly is not recorded. He is not at home in Beverley with the rest of his family
and I cannot locate him anywhere else. BUT coincidentaly TWS born Buttevant makes his first appearance in the census records.

TWS born Buttevant is recorded in the 1881 census in Bilton with Harrogate together with wife Kate and 1 year old daughter Sarah. (I haven't found a marriage for them either in the UK or Ireland)

I cannot find either TWS born Beverley or TWS born Buttevant in the 1891 census records.

I cannot find TWS born Beverley or TWS born Buttevant in the 1901 census records either, although his wife/partner Ellen Smelt (Nee Rokins) is recorded living in Lewisham with several of her children including my grandfather. (No marriage found)

TWS born Buttevant appears in the 1911 census living in Derby with a large family including my grandfather.

I have a TWS marriage in 1915 at Kettering and a later death in 1927 aged (Waiting for copy certificates)

I know it's a long shot but the clues are beginning to stack up that they may be the same man........

[heywood]

Yes it does seem a bit complicated.

I was thinking that Samuel (19 in 1861) would have been very young to have been in the Army, married, become a father and back to be a cordwainer but ...
That birth certificate would give some information as to Samuel's occupation.

If there is a military history- Thomas may well have joined up and married Kate- although as you say there is no obvious marriage.

The 1915 marriage which is a strong possibility would hopefully name Thomas's father so that would help.

[heywood]

Here we are and this is a surprise (to me anyway!) and very interesting!

1891 RG12; Piece: 1518; Folio 119; Page 11
(as Smalt)
12 Oak Street Norwich

Thomas W Smelt 31 yrs scenic artist b Ireland Buttowant
Nellie Smelt 27 yrs vocalist b Richmond Surrey
Rubina G 3 yrs b Northants Northampton
Thomas F 1 yr b Norfolk Yarmouth
Ethelbert P 1 month b Norfolk Norwich

This Ethelbert must have died and they called your grandfather after him.
Thomas who was married to Kate was a Painter so this proves that link.

The age is also right for 1859 birth. Looks very positive.

[Christopher]

Wonder if some kind soul can help?

My great grandfather Thomas William Smelt was born in Beverley in 1859. There is a military birth record stating '15th Regiment'. In the 1861 and 1871 censuses he is at home with his parents in Beverley. In 1881 he is missing, but another Thomas William Smelt appears for the first time giving his birth date as 1854 and place of birth as Buttevant. The first TWS does not appear in the records again until his death in 1927 aged 67.

My theory is that they may be the same man, and I wonder if someone can tell me -

Is SMELT a recognised irish surname? and is it likely that the 15th regiment were stationed at Buttevant and he may have been born there?

Thanks.........

Hello Falconer,

Smelt is not a recognised Irish name.

There is a Smelt listed on Griffith's Primary Valuations for Cork 1851 - 1853

John Smelt, Grand Parade, Holy Trinity. Cork

Christopher 

[heywood]

I can't think of much more-
the certificates will help and hopefully clarify the situation.

The child Sarah Smelt may be in Free BMD as Sarah Agnes Smelt b York 1880. 1881 does actually say b York and no other shows up in censuses.
Again that certificate, if it is the right child would give an insight in Thomas's situations.

best wishes
heywood

PS if possible please could you post any certificate results. It is interesting.

[Falconer66]

Thanks to everyone for their help and comments. Certificates should be with me in a day or so and I will be sure to report back! In the meantime if anyone can tell me how to obtain a copy of the military birth certificate (REF 901 21) it would be greatly appreciated.....