Irish birth 1836 - Emma Furlong

[William1951]

Thanks ShaunJ and Heywood for your amazingly helpful and generous responses to Quentin's query. I'm the second family wheel in this endeavour. Regards, William

[ShaunJ]

Welcome, William !

[heywood]

And a warm welcome from me too 

Heywood

Now, where is the family evidence re Furlong, please?

[William1951]

Thanks again. I'm now scouring the records to see where the putative Furlong ancestor came from. All of a sudden the evidence seems to vanish. Perhaps, over the years family members have been citing each other as the authority, each thinking the other had hard evidence. In a manuscript prepared by one of my mother's cousins, both of them Minnie's granddaughters who'd grown up with her never far away, Minnie's mother's maiden name is mentioned as Furlong Brodie. Perhaps, it was assumed that Brodie was the given name. There's been quite a tradition in the family of matronyms serving as second given names, so perhaps it was assumed that the Furlong was Minnie's grandmother's (MM) maiden name. These Furlongs are sure making us walk the extra mile!


Many, many thanks again

William
PS. I think there was a comment along the way that big families were the order of the day in the nineteenth century. They certainly were, but they didn't end there entirely. My mother's mother (one of Minnie's daughters) had 9 children, and mine had 10.  Now it's more a matter of hoping succeeding subsequent generations will do their bit to keep the family trees growing!

[heywood]

At the moment though the recorded evidence is pointing to Caltion/Carlton. Shaun may know if it is possible to acquire civil birth records of British births in India and whether they record the mother's name. I would think that if they are available, they would follow the same format as the records of the time.
The English birth records are available and we have some baptism records.

My own thoughts would be that if Emma had used a false surname for marriage, that would add to the romance of the elopement etc and would have remained in the family stories.

So now we also have the name Brodie somewhere in the story - is that right?

Heywood 

[William1951]

Dear Shaun and Heywood, I'm sorry that my dubious information has put such a heavy burden on you both, diverting you I am sure from other , more productive tasks.
I've spent the whole day exploring trawling for Donohues/Donoghues, Brodies and Carltons/Caltions, but have failed to find the missing chains of connection. I've done that separately for Ireland, England and Scotland, thinking that perhaps I'd prejudiced my search by mistakenly assuming that both Richard and Emma had been born in Ireland. I'm even starting to speculate that Richard's father might have preceded him in army service and that his place of birth will eventually be revealed as a military location somewhere.  Tonight I'll try to access the Indian baptismal and army records.

I was a teenager when I heard my mum's stories about her grandma's escapades. As a boy, I was probably deaf to the romantic aspects of it all, and more alive to the class and, I assumed, also the religious sectarianism at play.  The story I heard is of a young woman  being disowned and disinherited because she defied her family's wishes in marrying Richard.  And she was just 16 years old. I now imagine that there was much more to this drama that an agreed parting of ways, so perhaps there was a very good reason for using a false name.

Just to come back to the Furlongs, I've written to the Four Courts asking if they can point me to a roll call of past Justices. I've done a little searching on John Smith Furlong. He seems to have been quite a scholar. Like his father and brother, both named William, was a long-term member of the Royal Dublin Society, which seems to have been at that time the Ascendancy/Establishment in all its all its glory. I'm sure that RDS membership would do no harm to someone aspiring to elevation to the Four Courts bench. That's another way of saying that I haven't entirely given up on the Furlongs being in the family tree,  though my confidence has certainly be shaken.

All the very best, William
 

[heywood]

Firstly, it's a pleasure to help - we enjoy this on Rootschat. My only other 'productive task' at the moment would be cleaning!
Secondly, experience tells us that some family stories are based  on the truth but occasionally are enhanced. 
In this case there is some evidence recorded so that is where you have to begin.

What is known:
The censuses have births in Ireland.
They married in an Anglican church - the norm at the time - but the children were baptised Roman Catholic.
You have baptisms from Birmingham - mother Carlton.
Frances' baptism is in the Manchester Catholic indexes - you have to enter names separately
http://www.mlfhs.org.uk/data/catholic_search.php

Francesca Donoghue 1870 baptised  St. Wilfrid, Hulme
Ricardi Donoghue 1870 Father of Francesca Donoghue St.Wilfrid, Hulme 
Emmae Carlton 1870 Mother of Francesca Donoghue at  St. Wilfrid, Hulme

So Carlton is used again.

On his marriage, there is no suggestion that Richard is already in the military , although he may have been attached as a civilian tailor - I don't know the proecedures.
Their addresses on marriage are, from what I can see in street indexes, in adjoining areas where there was a high Irish population in Manchester.
Looking at the marriage certificate, the signatures of Richard and Emma look very similar in style, I think 

We know from Richard's army record that he was from St Mary's parish, Limerick.
We don't know where in Ireland Emma's origins are but family story is Dublin.

One would imagine that the Four Courts references would have some particular meaning - it would be an elaborate ruse otherwise perhaps.

As I said earlier, if she did change her name on marriage, perhaps she thought she would have to stick with that for her children's births. However, again, I feel that it would add to this exciting story rather than never be mentioned to her descendants.

best wishes

heywood

[QuentinDJ]

Gday all,

Welcome, William
Aren't they a helpful bunch here?
Manchester Roman Catholic records - what a find!

Back to Emma's surname 'Furlong' - I contributed to this - I found 'Emma Furlong' on Ancestry.com from another family tree that is managed by one of our cousins, so I took it as reliable. Now I am not at all sure, it looks like Carlton is correct, and Furlong maybe a false name for an eloped marriage or something ?

Regards,

Quentin

[777777]

Not sure if this helps, but just posting to add that the vast, vast majority of Furlongs in Ireland came from Co. Wexford, which has some of the oldest parish records in the country. Even if Emma was from Dublin, if she was a Furlong her father or grandfather most likely came from Wexford.