William Cook Jutsum .. Glazier

[frederickay]

Hi , I am trying to connect William Cook Jutsum born 1771 ,place unknown with the apprentice glazier of the same name in  Willington Somerset 1786 ,
 then the Glazier  William Cook Jutsum in South Molten DEVON ,

with my family of Jutsum with same christian names in London 1800.
 Frederick Ralph Caleb Jutsum.born 1803,  His father being a William Cook Jutsum in London .

 Likewise I am trying to connect same William Cook Jutsum to the family of Samuel and Elizabeth nee Hussey Jutsum and Samuel's grandmother Sarah Cook born 1700-1790..
 it would solve the connection between London and Devon Jutsum mystery.  Thanks Fred

[fionnghal]

hi, are you still looking for this connection?  I haven't been doing too much FH of late with other things getting in the way or i might have spotted this message earlier.

I have this member of the Jutsum family and know a little about them, though, of course, that may not be any more than you have.  if you're still looking, please let me know

Happy new year

Fionnghal

[frederickay]

Hi yes still looking exactly as mentioned. No further whatsever lol. Thanks Fred

[fionnghal]

hi Fred,
I have, bracketed into my family tree, a John Jutsum [b.c.1701, d.1786] who in 1730 apparently married a Sarah Cook [d.1796] at Stamford Peverell.  I say bracketed, because i prefer not to regard any individuals as gospel until i have been able to research & prove, to my own personal satisfaction, that what i have is correct.  There is apparently, out there in the ether, a difference of opinion as regards the Jutsum family but I prefer not to get involved in it and that's not to mention funny online trees, where folk have either never read their actual docs - if they have them - or simply copied everyone elses names & dates regardless of how unlikely they may be!  One day i hope to get down to Devon and look it all out for myself but I'm not sure when that will be as it'll take a bit of organizing.  So, there could be mistakes in this.  Some of hte dates and info were a bit iffy.

Anyway, if the marriage is bone fide and they do belong, the couple had the kids I've noted here:  all born Halberton as far as i can see
Saml* J b.c.1731; occ. unknown; d.1790 Halberton
John** J b.1733, occ. Overseer or collector apparently;  d.1837 North Molton district
Rchd J b.c.1736 occ. London butcher, d.1787, St Botolph, LON;
Ralph*** J 1739; occ. yeoman; d.1801 West Buckland SOM;
Danl J 1st b.1743; d. aged 1 mth, Halberton DEV
Danl 2nd b.c.1745  I have him as an appr. butcher in Sampford P in 1763
Sarah b.c.1751; maybe d.1755 Halberton

I don't have any suggested birth for Sarah Cook, but John Jutsum is reputed to be the son of John Jutsum & Hannah Marsh.

Their son, Samuel*, is reputed to be the one who married Elzth Hussey

Son Ralph***, as you can see, moved to Somerset , however,  I've never spotted a son for them, never mind a William, but that doesn't mean they didn't have one.  Ralph married an Elzth Norrish / Norris in 1763 and their policy of using mum's surname as a middle name does suggest something of a tradition evolving.  Those i've found on the IGI are Sarah, Elzth, Jenny & Mary all with the middle name Norris and b.bet 1765 & 1772.  There are a few other girls i was 'given' but i've found nothing to prove they are in fact theirs.  They certainly had time to have had more kids.  The above mentioned kids were chr. in Dulverton SOM and i've no idea where that is in relation to West Buckham where they settled so it is possible, if they are two different registration districts, that more kids are hidden there., no doubt with the wrong spelling to confuse the issue

I don't have either of your Frederick Ralph Caleb Jutsum or his dad, William Cook Jutsum in London but then it's not surprising as i clearly don't haev the all important link.  However, i don;t doubt you have a genuine link to my Halberton and Somerset Jutsums.  It's just finding that link.    These forebears can be very inconsiderate, can't they?

This William Cookbirth is interesting.  I thought at first it had to be the above Ralph's brother John**, and that would make sense.  I have him as marrying an Ann Baker in 1776 and producing  a son and 4 dau's that i've found so far. Marrying in 1776 makes them unlikely parents for William C., however, that allows for dad, John, to have had a previous marriage.  Judging by the d.o.b I have for him in 1733, he;d have been in his 40s when he married Ann.  So, maybe he married the Elzth below* in time to haev a son called William C J. c.1772.  That'd be worth looking into if you have;t already.
William Cooke Jutson chr: 28 July 1771 St Thomas the Apostle Exeter, DEV s of John & Elzth*  Jutson
It might also be worth looking at the above John J & Ann Baker's marriage lines, the originals if possible, to see if it mentions his being a widower. 
Just a thought.

I take it this is some of your lot:
William Jutsum b.14 Oct 1803 chr.29 Dec 1808 St. James, Westminster MDX s of William & Mary Cook Jutsum
Mary Elizth. Jutsam b.14 Oct 1803 chr.29 Dec 1808 St. James, Westminster MDX dau of of William & Mary Cook Jutsum
Thos. Cheesman Jutsam b.8 Apr 1807, chr.    29 Dec 1808 St. James, Westminster MDX s of Wm. & Mary Cook Jutsam
 They certainly fit with the Exeter born Wm C J being born when he was and moving to London. 

William Cook Jutsum m. Ann Blackburn  23 Dec 1850 Saint Anne Soho, Westminster MDX
William John Jubsum(sic) chr.5 Dec 1858 Chelsea, MDX s of William & Ann Cook Jubsum
I just did a quick hunt, to give me a piture of times and places.

I suppose you've tried looking for Apprenticeship records.   Just once in a million tries, something worthwhile pops up :-]

If the above information is correct, I too descend from the same couples, this being my early tree
John Jutsum m. Grace unknown c.1672 Cadeleigh DEV
John Jutsum m. Hannah Marsh ca.1694 Sampford P
John  Jutsum m. SArah Cook 1730 S.P
Saml Jutsum m. Elzth Hussey 1764 Halberton
Richd Jutsum m. Anne Coles 1790 Halberton
Robert Salter m. Elzth Jutsum 1824 Halberton
dau Jane Salter m. James Beavis, a London cheesemonger,
&c.

It appears my original message was too long so pt.2 will follow

cheers

Fionnghal

[fionnghal]

part 2:
As a matter of interest, I spotted, in the 1798 Land Tax Redemption records for Willand DEV, a parish within the Halberton hundred, a record of a proprietor, Nathaniel, who has a tenant by the name of John Jutsum. Both our forebears died a few years before the enumeration was done but the association of names begs a few questions even if it doesn't answer them :-) 
 In the ledger, the Willand returns are sandwiched between Halberton and Samford Peverell and is only 1 pgs long [back and front], each page no. when the ledger is opened out is only marked on the right hand side so takes care of the front and back of hte page,  i've numbered it, for my own refence, pps.192a & 192b.  The Cook & Jutsum names appear on p.192b. Willand is only a mile or two north of Cullompton.
Land Tax Redemption Office: Quotas & Assessments 1798, IR23; Piece: 17, Vol. 2, pps.192a & b /556
Hundred of Halberton, parish of Willand, DEV
Proprietor:    Nathl Cook   
Tenant:  Jno Jutsum
Residence:    Willand, Devon, England

How have you found researching Devon records?  I ordered a number of films up through the LDS but they were all images of typed registers rather than the originals, which means so many mistakes & missed entries could have been made already. 

That'll have to do it for today.  if i think of anything else, I'll get back to you and if you have any questions - I've assumed you have most of these dates complete - let me know.  It'd be quite good to untie any knots and clear the view.

cheers for now

Fionnghal

[frederickay]

Wow thank you for a very full reply . I don't even know where to start and with a prehistoric computer.. dial up and in NZ .. but excuses excuses.


 I have thought if I could find a common thread with the William Cook Jutsum,  apprentice glazier in Somerset boarding in a house run by a Mrs Knight  ,To the William Cook Jutsum glazier in Devon ,To the William cook Jutsum  unknown occ. in Chatham Kent marrying Mary Cheeseman thru occupation .
 The time line is possible.
I have found nothing of this WCJ in Bond Street London 1800 to 1816 other than his children's births.

 It would be a way of connecting the dots.   
 Out of interest WCJ  and MC had   sons with second names ... Steiner ,Potts and sankey. I have never seen these name s in any reference to others in the family,

 and then Frederick Ralph Caleb and Lavinia Fredericka nee de Yrujo have a mysterious son .. HENWAY.. some say he is the same as Henry but on inspecting the 1841-51 census there is years difference in ages ... Henway doe s not appear again tho.

I had thought i would have been able to find some connection to the names Steiner ,Potts or Sankey but not to be.

 Do they feature in your Devon names.??

I think the Caleb name may come thru from the Cheeseman side.

 Is it red herring that Lavinia Fredericka de Yrujo born abt 1817 in Chelsea  is the granddaughter  of Sarah Knight  ( born out of county n regards to the Chelsea 1841 census .)
and that it is
Clasping at straws   Jutsum and Knight names from Somerset have met up in London ?
 I know nothing of Sarah Knight family.
I have so much not as well documented as you but just this one thing that doesn't allow us to connect the Somerset , Devon ,London family into one group. What a breakthrough that will be . Thank you for you very full answer I will print it off and absorb . TY Fred

[JaneyCanuck]

and then Frederick Ralph Caleb and Lavinia Fredericka nee de Yrujo have a mysterious son .. HENWAY.. some say he is the same as Henry but on inspecting the 1841-51 census there is years difference in ages ... Henway doe s not appear again tho.

No ... but Henry does.

1881 census, e.g., Henry Jutsum married to Mary Ann, with daughter Elizabeth 13, living in Battersea. His details, 1842 Chelsea, fit the 1851 census for "Henway" perfectly.

Henway just isn't a name. (But it is an old joke told by an old friend of mine many years ago, which is why I just couldn't resist looking for your Henway. Look at this Henway I just bought! Er, what's a Henway? Oh, about a kilo.)

The birth of Henry Hubert Jutsum, June quarter 1842 Chelsea, also fits the 1851 census perfectly. Can't see a marriage, or death, under any similar name, though.

Henway only appears in 1851 I think, aged 9. I don't think that entry can be confidently read as "Henway".

The 1851 household has a Henry aged 6 months. There is no corresponding birth reg. Did they maybe do their registering a little late? George shows as 2 in 1851 but was registered in June quarter 1850, which would make him 1 at best in 1851.

My other reason for replying, other than to tell a bad joke, is that you wondered about the Sankey surname. I note in the censuses that there are Jutsums in Whitstable/Seasalter, Kent (Blean reg dist). My Sankeys come from thereabouts. People were known to give their children the surnames of inlaws as middle names, out of respect or in hope of inheritance. The Sankeys are about the only family in my tree with notable disposable income (said to have come from a treasure chest found somewhere and in the possession of a widow lady whom a Sankey hired man married -- I only know of the family through research and what other researchers have told me).

Ralph Sankey Jutsum 1876 Devon, later lived in Somerset, is the person in question, parents Joseph and Ann (Parker?). Sankey just isn't a big Devon name (but Devon parents were fond of giving surnames as middle names). The two main Sankey families are in Cheshire and Kent. If you just search for Sankey in Devon at FreeBMD, though, you do find a few events, including in Wellington Somerset and Taunton. Trying to connect them with the Jutsum family would be the task!

[frederickay]

Thank you for your very full reply. i wonder if Henway was born and died between census.
 I have looked at my tree again and see i have HERBERT POTTS SANKEY  Jutsum AND HERBERT POTS LOCKIE Jutsum . Same person, two different transcriptions i guess.1817-66. definitely son of the William cook and Mary nee Cheeseman on my line. if the Sankey is correct it is interesting that it crops up back in Somerset in 1876 .
It appears there is enclaves of Jutsums in Somerset ,Devon ,and Kent and London . i have not connected mine to the Samuel Jutsum .butcher in London nor the Artist Henry Jutsum .
 One would have thought I would have been able to seek the names Potts .Lockie or Sankey but have not been able to. A tenuous link is the Sarah Cook marrying John Jutsum in Devon . The time line allows them to have a son William Cook Jutsum .  The name went thru the family until 1900 plus.  Thank you for your help. i will print it and absorb .
TY FRED

[JaneyCanuck]

"i wonder if Henway was born and died between census"

I'll try being a little less obscure.

The person transcribed at Ancestry as "Henway" in 1851, shown as male and aged 9 and born in Chelsea, has a non-existent name. He is a perfect match for the Henry Jutsum in later censuses, born c1842 in Chelsea.

"Henway" just isn't a name. Henry was often spelled "Henery" in censuses, and perhaps that is what that entry says.

(Henway turns up in the GRO index as a surname in the odd place, but seems to be a single isolated family that started out in Dorset and then shifted to Birkenhead/Liverpool.)

The infant Henry in the 1851 census is the mystery boy. He is the one who doesn't appear in later censuses. He seems to be aged 6 months in 1851.

Henry Hubert Jutsum's birth was registered June quarter 1842 in Chelsea. He has to be "Henway".

After the census with daughter Elizabeth, they seem to disappear. Emigrated?

The marriage seems to be Henry Jutsum and Mary Ann Reed, 1877 Wandsworth. The certificate would state his father's name ...


Herbert Pots Lockie Jutsum who married 1841 in Westminster -- the GRO index is a typed transcription of the original handwritten index. To be sure of what his name really was, you need to see the marriage certificate for yourself. Do you know what kind of record the "Sankey" in his name comes from?

Ralph Sankey Jutsum was born in 1876 in South Molton. If he got his name from Herbert, it originates back farther in the family then.

Ralph's father was Joseph whose father was Richard, born c1800 Halberton. Joseph was the youngest. Was Herbert possibly the eldest in the same family? Herbert in 1841 is invisible to me. No, in 1851 he shows as born in St Geo Han Sq, London; he's of the Chelsea clan.

I guess the question is where you have the Sankey in Herbert's name from. Herbert seems to have avoided appearing in death records in England too ...

My gr-grfather's sister born c1855 has two surnames for middle names, like Herbert. The two of them adopted one of those surnames as their fake surname, as young adults. I have no idea where either that surname or the one she has as her first middle name came from. Nowhere in their mother's lines in Cornwall, for sure; their father's lines in Cornwall/Devon are too obscure, but the name didn't exist by two generations back, and neither surname is a local surname. In my gr-grfather's sister's case, we may be seeing evidence of a "non-paternal event": real father may not be registered father. But I think people also just used names they fancied, or names in the news. Witness all the Mafekings and Baden Powells born c1900.