Lady Ann of Clontarf?

[Joseph L. Oliver]

I wonder if anyone can help me track down my family ancestor Lady Ann. 

In my mother's family are relics handed down to the first daughter born.  They belonged to a "Lady Ann of Glen Tarff or Clontarf".  There is a painted portrait, small silhouettes of women, a very nice simple ring with rubies and seed pearls, and there used to be a dress which disintegrated many years ago.

I can cleanly trace my mother's maternal ancestors to Jesse Sutherland, b. 1828 in Scotland (where there is a Glen Tarff and Glentarf).  And since the relics are handed down via 1st born girls, it seems that I should be focusing on Scotland for Lady Ann. 

But today a very nice person on Rootschat discovered that Jesse S. Sutherland of Scotland married James F. Burke in 1850 in Clontarf, Dublin, Ireland (for years I've known that James F. was born in Dublin 1830).  So faced with these intersections of data, now I must focus on Clontarf in Ireland, with the possibility that James F. Burke had no female siblings or his female siblings had no daughters, so he got the relics from his mother and then gave them to his first born daughter.  You all know the strange curves possible in family history, so in Ireland I'm looking.

Around 1850 he married my mom's great, great grandmother, Jesse Sutherland, b. 1828 in Scotland.  Their first child was born in Cincinnati, Ohio 1855.  They named their first daughter Mary, and their second daughter Alice.  Mary had no children.  Alice named her only daughter Jesse (my great grandmother).  Jesse named her first daughter Alice, who named her first daughter Jessie (my mother's sister). 

Lady Ann was Jesse Sutherland's great grandmother.  Lady Ann would have been born between 1752 and 1783.  It is fairly certain that Lady Ann was not the wife of a Duke:  it is said that she was the wife of the Earl of Glen Tarff/Clontarf.

Does anyone have any suggestions for how I might proceed?  I've searched some church records with inconclusive results.  Any lead would be appreciated.

Thank you,

Joe O

[shanew147]

you can see some details on Clontarf around that time in these extracts from Thom's directory of 1848 :

  Details of Clontarf
  Street listing page 1    page 2  page 3

I dont know of a specific 'Earl of Clontarf' title but there is an Earl mentioned in the area with the title 'Right Honourable Earl Of Charlemont' with an address at Clontarf Strand.


Shane

[shanew147]

following on the detail that Monica already found in your Scotland post (see : Re: Sutherlands, or Lady Ann, of Glen Tarff ), these are the Civil Index records for the marriage :

 Name: Jessie Sophia Sutherland
 Registration District: Dublin North
 Event Type: Marriage
 Year: 1850
 volume : 5 / page : 39

 Name: James Francis Burke
 [same index details]

You can use these details to order a marriage cert - this will show additional detail e.g. residences of the bride and groom, name of the church, occupations, names or witnesses etc

see :
  Introduction to Irish Records
 Ordering Certs from GRO Roscommon
 Details included on a Marriage Cert

[hallmark]

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ali/  shows the marriage entry in the register

[shanew147]

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ali/  shows the marriage entry in the register

I should have remembered that Clontarf CofI records were online - some of my own relatives are in the same register..




Shane

[hallmark]

The trouble is that we're so used to records not being on line we forget that some are! I only remembered, as like you some of mine are in same register so when I saw Clontarf...

Also, as far as I recall, the Casino on Malahide Road was on Charlemont land... Charlemont Road etc

[Purpeller]

The Earl of Charlemont's wife would be addressed as Countess but daughters of an earl have a courtesy title of Lady X Y.  If the daughter married, she would assume her husband's surname but would still retain the Lady First Name if her husband was not a higher rank than her father.

[Joseph L. Oliver]

 

Shane, Hallmark, Purpeller:

I am absolutely humbled and overwhelmed by your combined generosity.  Trying to take this all in and see the parts that might fit.

Shane, yes I see the listing for the Earl.  That listing is from 1848, and the Earl I am looking for would have been Jessie Sutherland's great, great grandfather, born 1738 to 1783.  His age range in 1848 could have been between 65 and 110 years old, so it's possible that this is the right person, but I would have work up more relations before I can make any connection.

So, staying with the protocol of the artifacts being handed down to first born daughters, and assuming there WERE daughters born to each generation between Lady Ann and Jessie Sutherland...  Oh, my brain hurts - Well, I really need to try to find marriages between Jessie Sutherland's parents and between her grandparents. 

So, I've got her father's name:  John Sutherland, probably married around 1830.  Jessie did report in the 1860 census that she, her mother and father were born in Scotland...  Argh, so that leads us away from Clontarf, Ireland.

No, if I am to assume that the artifacts came from Lady Ann of Clontarf, Ireland, then I must assume that they came from Jessie's husband, due to his parents not producing a daughter, or the daughter died before bearing children, so the artifacts passed to him.

Does this sound sane?  Is it possible to check records further back?  I'll see if I can figure that out.

Thank you, thank you everyone for the little pieces of the puzzle that you are supplying.

Regards,

Joe O



   

 

[shanew147]

.....
Is it possible to check records further back?  I'll see if I can figure that out.
....

there a quite a few Church of Ireland records for Dublin city area on http://www.irishgenealogy.ie, including Clontarf which is slightly outside the city. The records for the parish of Clontarf seem to go back to about 1808.


Shane