James Vickers and Ann Littler

[Digger88]

I am trying to find info (census, or otherwise) about the above pair who married 14Feb1850. He was 28 (b. c1822) she was 21 (b. c1829). Both were illiterate.

Can anyone help?
 
Please do not get confused with James and Ann Elson; he was a shoemaker in 1851 (whereas the one above was a labourer). While Ann is shown as being between 4 and 2 years older than above.

[CaroleW]

This 1851 entry is clearly Vickers but they are living next door to an Elson family.  Is this the entry you want ignored as it is the only one for a couple with those names in Cheshire?

All b Bunbury

James Vickers 28 shoe maker
Ann 25
Ellen 2
HO107; Piece: 2170; Folio: 171; Page: 16

The same couple (more children) are the only ones of those names on the 1861

Can you give some info about the names etc of any of their children?  If you have them on a later census - where were they born?

[Manchester Rambler]

I wonder whether Ann died and James remarried, as this entry for 1861 seems an odd coincidence otherwise:

RG9/2595; Folio 80; Page 13
Great Budworth, Cheshire
Ann LITTLER - Head - W - 60 - Domestic ?? - Dutton
Abram LITTLER - Son - 28 - Ag Lab - Gt Budworth
Sarah LITTLER - G-Dau - 11 - Scholar - Gt Budworth
James VICARS - Lodger - 39 - Ag Lab - Gt Budworth
Jane VICARS - Wife - 38 - Gt Budworth
Charlotte VICARS - Dau - 8 - Scholar - Gt Budworth
Frances A VICARS - Dau - 6 - Scholar - Gt Budworth


Rambler

[Manchester Rambler]

1851 is very faint and hard to read, but I think James' wife is Ann, not Jane - her age matches too. 

HO107/2164; Folio 6; Page 4
Village, Gt Budworth
Peter LITTLER - Head - 48 - Tailor - Gt Budworth
Ann LITTLER - Wife - 46 - Gt Budworth
Charlotte LITTLER - Dau - 20 - Servant - Gt Budworth
Abram LITTLER - Son - 18 - Ag Lab - Gt Budworth
Peter LITTLER - Son - ? - Ag Lab - Gt Budworth
Alfred LITTLER - G-Son - 6 - Gt Budworth
Elizabeth DAVIES - G-Dau - 4 - Gt Budworth
Sarah LITTLER - G-Dau - 2 mo - Gt Budworth
James VICKERS - Son-in-law- 32 - Ag Lab - (?)Rousham
Ann VICKERS - Wife - 24 - Gt Budworth


Rambler

[Digger88]

Carol,
Thanks for your reply - Yes as they live next door I have assumed that the Ann is of the Ann Elson marriage.  There is a full set of census info for this family, and may further back in time be related - but not what I am looking for.
Regards, Digger.

[Digger88]

Hi Manchester Rambler,
The Vicars, are infact 'Vickers' - Jane is my Gt Gt G'ma, and Frances A is one of her daughters. Also Ann Littler is her mother. I have recently pointed out the errors to Ancestry and hopefully there will be a correction.

However, I like your suggestion of a wife's death, despite the said James claiming he is a Batchelor (rather than a widow); the only thing is -could a labourer have taken on the work of a 'shoemaker'??

My aunt before she died mentioned that during her childhood she could remember going to an 'uncles' in Chorley and his cobbler's shop. Sadly a stray piece of information without a hook to hang it on.

But thanks for trying.  Digger

[Manchester Rambler]

Now I'm confused!

I understood that you had a marriage between James VICKERS and Ann LITTLER in 1850 - this would match the 1851 census entry I posted.

James seems to have a different wife (Jane) in 1861, although he's still living with Ann Littler's family.  On both censuses he's a labourer (not a shoemaker).  That's why I wondered whether Ann had died and James had remarried - although I don't see an obvious marriage on Free BMD.

However, now you say that Jane is your ancestor, so I'm a bit lost...  Is she the same person as Ann?

Rambler

[Digger88]

I am sure that 'Ann' should be JANE (because of the ancestral relationship and subsequent census and death information).
The problem lies in the existence of two pairs of James and Ann.
The first married and Ann Elson (in 1844) and seems to have stayed nextdoor to the Elson family.
The second married Ann Littler (in 1850) and this one seems to have dissapeared.
Additionally the given ages of James vary his birth year so I can't pin down who has what father.
Finally there is an Ann Vickers death prior to 1850; and (apart from Ellen) its not until after this that children come along. But the remarrage does not seem to stand up.

[Manchester Rambler]

James' marriage cert to Ann LITTLER will give his father's name (unless he was illegitimate) - he isn't with parents on the 1841 census, so that's no help unfortunately.  (Ann Littler aged 12 is at home with her parents Peter and Ann in 1841.)

Do you have a birth cert for any of James' children, and if so, who is named as the mother?  It seems odd that "Ann" becomes "Jane" between 1851 and 1861, although there's certainly no obvious remarriage.  (Perhaps she just preferred the name Jane, or it was her middle name!)

James (Ag Lab) and Jane are living in Wincham in 1871, 1881 and 1891 - do you need these details?  Both die in 1896:

Deaths Dec 1896 
VICKERS   James          74   
Northwich 8a 191   
VICKERS   Jane         75   
Northwich 8a 179

Rambler