Author Topic: Annie May O'sullivan brick wall  (Read 7721 times)

Offline teejay

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Annie May O'sullivan brick wall
« on: Friday 18 April 14 16:45 BST (UK) »
Hi  Annie May was born in Co Limerick c 1893 / 1894 but I have drawn a blank in finding her birth.
These are the facts that I have. She married George Henry Wilson during October 1913 in Eastleigh Hampshire in a Roman Catholic church. They lived at the same address. She was 20 years old and her occupation was domestic cook. Her father was Peter O'sullivan a road steward. She died in July 1941 aged 47.
Her eldest son, now deceased, spoke about the times in the 1920's and 1930's when he travelled to Castle Connell  Co Limerick to visit her family and how he used to go fishing in the river Shannon. He never went into any other details about his mother or Ireland.
The house that Annie May was living in when she died was called COOLBAWN which I believe is an area near Castle Connell
I have recently found a family named O'sullivan living in Richhill in the Irish 1901 census who could be her family but the girls name is May aged 7, father Peter a shopkeeper. On the 1911 census the family is living in Ballynacourty, without May, but Peter is now a road labourer  (road steward !!!). I cannot find Annie May on any UK or Irish 1911 census
Peter nor Annie May O'sullivan is a common name in Co Limerick and continuous searching draws a blank
Can anybody offer any help please
Area  Witley / Farnham    Surrey ,    Crondall , Eastleigh  Hampshire ,  Duncton Sussex ,  Limerick Ireland
Surnames   Farrar, Farr, Pellett , Moseley ,Hall , Ridgers, Wilson , O'sullivan

Offline gaffy

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Re: Annie May O'sullivan brick wall
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 19 April 14 06:42 BST (UK) »
I'm assuming and posting these as the 1901 / 1911 census records you referred to:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Limerick/Ballyvarra/Richhill/1494091/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Limerick/Castleconnell/Ballynacourty/622820/

The 1911 census record for Peter O'Sullivan in Castleconnell shows 30 years married.  A quick search of the marriage index in the RootsIreland website for Peter O'Sullivan in County Limerick brings back only one Mary (wife's forename in the 1901 / 1911 census records), a church marriage to Mary Griffin in 1881.

A quick search of the RootsIreland baptismal/birth index for parents Peter O'Sullivan and Mary Griffin in County Limerick brings back a number of hits, critically these include:

- a civil birth and church baptism for a Christopher O'Sullivan in 1892;
- a civil birth for a Catherine O'Sullivan in 1893;
- a civil birth for an 'Anne Mary O'Sullivan' and a church baptism for an 'Anne My O'Sullivan' in 1894;
- a civil birth and church baptism for a Clare O'Sullivan in 1896;
- a civil birth and baptism for a Bridget Mary O'Sullivan in 1898; and
- a civil birth for a Mary Ann O'Sullivan in 1907.

All of which ties in nicely with the children in the 1901 Ballyvarra and 1911 Castleconnell census records for Peter and Mary O'Sullivan.  The search of the RootsIreland index brings back other baptismal/birth records for this couple, but the 1911 census record points to this possibility anyway (15 children born, only 6 children living).

All record content is 'pay to view'.

 

Offline gaffy

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Re: Annie May O'sullivan brick wall
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 19 April 14 06:59 BST (UK) »
Searching the RootsIreland website county index for Limerick, I can say that the 1881 marriage of Peter O'Sullivan to Mary Griffin took place in Doon RC parish, which is in east County Limerick, close to the border with County Tipperary.

On that basis, this looks like the civil record for the marriage registered in County Tipperary, should you wish to order it up:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FYW7-7Y3
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FYWW-368

The RootsIreland website cites the parish/district for this civil record as Cappagh, County Tipperary, the content of the transcribed record is 'pay to view'.


Offline gaffy

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Re: Annie May O'sullivan brick wall
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 19 April 14 07:15 BST (UK) »
Just to add, the RootsIreland website county index for Limerick shows the parish/district for the 1894 civil birth record of 'Anne Mary O'Sullivan' as Annacotty, and the parish/district for the 1894 church baptism of 'Anne My O'Sullivan' ('My' probably mistranscribed) as Castleconnell RC parish.

This is the best fit for the civil record, should you wish to order it up:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FBFM-CZ5 


Offline teejay

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Re: Annie May O'sullivan brick wall
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 19 April 14 16:52 BST (UK) »
Thank you very much gaffy for your excellent help. Although the Christian names do not match all the other clues certainly give me the feeling that you have highlighted the correct person. Annie May was the grandmother of my wife but whilst searching for my own ancestors I have found on more than one occasion that Christian names given at birth were changed, especially by the ladies.
Area  Witley / Farnham    Surrey ,    Crondall , Eastleigh  Hampshire ,  Duncton Sussex ,  Limerick Ireland
Surnames   Farrar, Farr, Pellett , Moseley ,Hall , Ridgers, Wilson , O'sullivan

Offline teejay

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Re: Annie May O'sullivan brick wall
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 27 April 14 20:47 BST (UK) »
This is the latest information that I have on Annie May. With the information supplied by gaffy I obtained the civil birth certificate for Ann Mary O'sullivan which gave me the following information.
Born 4th July 1894 place of birth Mount Shannon, father Peter O'sullivan occupation steward , mother Mary Griffin. Now another problem arises , would Mount Shannon be the big house or that area of Limerick. In the 1901 census there were only 3 houses in Mount Shannon and only 1 was occupied.
Peter's occupation also causes a problem . Steward in 1894 ,shopkeeper in 1901, road labourer in 1911 and road steward on Annie May's marriage certificate. Would steward refer to a position in  the big house.
With all this information I am convinced that Ann Mary O'sullivan is my Annie May.
Through Roots Chat and another forum I have made contact with the granddaughter of Bridget the younger sister on the 1901 census. Bridget fled to England between 1920 and 1923 and never returned to Ireland or spoke about the family. She only said that the Mount Shannon house featured in her life. The granddaughter is as much in the dark about the family as I am. We do know that the big house was burnt down by the IRA in 1920 to stop it being occupied as a barracks by the British Army.
Any help about how to further our research would be really appreciated
 
Area  Witley / Farnham    Surrey ,    Crondall , Eastleigh  Hampshire ,  Duncton Sussex ,  Limerick Ireland
Surnames   Farrar, Farr, Pellett , Moseley ,Hall , Ridgers, Wilson , O'sullivan

Offline mattwood

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Re: Annie May O'sullivan brick wall
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 17 February 19 12:57 GMT (UK) »
Hi Teejay,

I'm not sure how old this post is but I'll answer it anyway in the hope you may find some of the information new and relevant.

I am a great grandson of Peter and Mary (Griffin) O'Sullivan and I live in the west of England near Bristol. My grandfather was Christopher (Christy) O'Sullivan of Casleconnell and he was the only surviving son of Peter and Mary O'Sullivan.
Peter O'Sullivan may have been born in Casleconnell in the early 1840s. This is an assumption made from his army record which gives this as his place of birth. He joined the 47th foot (the Lancashire regiment) on 27th December 1870 aged 25 and was given the rank of Coporal. This would suggest that he was given immediate responsibility for a section, possibly because of his age or alternatively his level of education. Peter O'Sullivan, unusually for that period of Irish history was literate and well educated.
He returned to Castleconnell approximately a decade later and Married Mary Griffin in Doon (East Limerick) in 1881. Peter was about 40, Mary was 20 and over the next 20 years they had 15 children of which only 6 survived,  they were Christopher (known as Christie), Kathleen (known as Kitty) Annie May (known as May), Bridget (known as Breda), Clair (known as Clara) and Mary Anne. I have to admit that I had not known that May's first name was Anne but it helped to solve a mystery in my family. My mother and her five sisters were all named after family members of the previous generation, also her 2 brothers and I could identify all with the exception of my aunt Anne one of the only 2 surviving children of Christopher O'Sullivan. It now makes sense that she was named after Annie May her father's sister. It is a revelation to me that Annie married an Englishman but I have to say, not a surprise. It would appear from old family stories that the O'Sullivan family was very pro British. Kathleen (known as Kitty) married an English soldier in Limerick in 1914 just before the outbreak of the 1st WW. His name was James Henry Hatcher and they settled in Islington, North London after the war, eventually moving to the Farnham area in Surrey to be closer to James' family. They had two daughters Kathleen and Clara. Unfortunately Kitty died young aged 45 in 1935, which suggests her birth year was 1890. I am in contact with her great granddaughter.
Clara O'Sullivan also married an Englishman by the name of Cecil Norris and they had one son William (Billy Norris) who died aged 21 riddled with cancer. My mother used to regularly visit them in Romsey, Hampshire when she came to England to nurse in the London hospitals and she said that they never got over the death of their only child.
That Annie May also married an Englishman is therefore of no surprise to me but it is a surprise that Bridget also came to England. I had no idea what became of her because after the 1901 census she disappeared, but the fact that she "fled" Ireland again could have a bearing on family legend.
My aunt who was the authority on family information told me that grandfather Peter was a very heavy drinker, one might say probably an alcoholic who would spend pretty much every evening in the pub returning home often in a dark mood when he would turn physically violent on his wife and children, including his daughters. This continued throughout their childhood until Christie grew to be a well developed young man. On the final occasion of Peter's violence towards his wife and daughters Christie turned on his father and gave him such a severe beating he never raised a hand to a family member again. Maybe it was this domestic violence that Bridget was turning her back on. Peter O'Sullivan was known as the village scribe. He made a small sideline in writing letters for village folk who were largely illiterate, reading and writing letters for them in exchange for a small fee. He may have been a fisherman but I have no real evidence for that other than to say that my grandfather Christie was a keen and regular fisher on the mighty Shannon. My mother remembered him often turning up from a fishing trip with a fine Salmon tucked under his arm. His old fishing rods are still on display in the old homestead my mother grew up in, Sallymount, Lisnagry, near Castleconnell. They have been on display in the same place in the old living room for well over 80 years now. I have no interest at all in fishing but my son is mad for it. Perhaps he gets it from his Irish great grandfather. I think it quite probable that May's eldest son may have been taken fishing  on the Shannon by his uncle Christie.

Offline mattwood

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Re: Annie May O'sullivan brick wall
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 17 February 19 13:02 GMT (UK) »
Part 2 (I exceeded the 5500 characters)
The connection with Mount Shannon also has it's roots in family legend.
From a story my uncle Sean told me, Peter's mother and father were in service to the Massey family of Mount Shannon. His father who I think may have been Dennis O'Sullivan (but I need to do more research in his direction) is thought to have been the valet to Lord Massey and while away on a trip to Paris with Lord and Lady Massey his new wife was "preyed" upon by their eldest son left at home to run the estate. Whether he forced himself on her or seduced her isn't know but family legend has it that Peter's mother told him on her deathbed that he was not the son of the man who raised him but the son of the present Lord Massey. This family legend according to uncle Sean was told to him by his father who claimed that it was told to him by his father Peter. I always used to think to myself, what a wonderful story but I bet it's told in various forms by every Irish family from Dingle to Donegal. However, when I recently had my DNA analysed on Ancestry I was surprised to discover that I was only 43% Irish, suggesting that my mother was not 100% Irish. It does now make me wonder if there may have been some truth in the family legend. It may also account for Peter's heavy drinking. If his mother did tell him about his alleged paternity it may have had a profound effect on him and caused him to become quite morose.
You may also be interested to know that Mary O'Sullivan was widowed in 1925 the year that Peter died aged 84 (inscription on his headstone which implies he was born 1841). She was a widow for 39 years and died in April 1964 just a few weeks off her 104th birthday. She was claimed to be the oldest living person in Ireland for the last few weeks of her life.
I hope you have found this information of some use and I would concur with you that  May O'Sullivan of Castleconnell  is beyond all reasonable doubt the Annie May you're trying to identify. I have photographic image of Peter, Mary, Kitty Christie and Mary Anne (who was a life long spinster) but unfortunately not of May. Please let me know if your interested in copies and I shall email them to you.

With my regards, Matt Wood

PS My mother once told me that two of her father's sisters died young, both from bone cancer. I suspect one was Kitty, could the other have been May? Do you know what she died from?

Offline teejay

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Re: Annie May O'sullivan brick wall
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 17 February 19 14:32 GMT (UK) »
Hi Matt
This post from you has come at a complete surprise to my wife ( I do the research on her behalf ).
The only firm evidence that I have is that Annie May O'sullivan married George Wilson in Eastleigh Hampshire on the 11 November 1913. She was a spinster and domestic cook living at the same address as George in Eastleigh. On the marriage certificate it states that her father was Peter a road steward . Her age was 20 yrs . She had two sons Harry and Ronnie Wilson born in Eastleigh.
Harry my father in law was born 15 Feb 1915 but is now deceased. Annie and George moved to Holt Pound Wrecclesham  Farnham Surrey  before or in the early part of the 2nd world war.
Annie died in Guildford hospital 9th July 1941 aged 47 from cancer and is buried in Eastleigh .
Would the name or place  COOLBAWN  mean anything to you ??? . My father in law never spoke about his family except to say as a young boy he used to visit family in Castleconnel
Teejay
 
Area  Witley / Farnham    Surrey ,    Crondall , Eastleigh  Hampshire ,  Duncton Sussex ,  Limerick Ireland
Surnames   Farrar, Farr, Pellett , Moseley ,Hall , Ridgers, Wilson , O'sullivan