Author Topic: Death confusion-help please  (Read 3521 times)

Offline worth

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Death confusion-help please
« on: Tuesday 14 October 14 17:31 BST (UK) »
Hi all
I am looking for the death of Elizabeth Chalmers, maiden name Ferguson,born 1822 in Midlothian Scotland and according to somebody elses family tree I have come across online she died in 1885 in the Union workhouse Linlithgow West Lothian. I have looked and looked everywhere for her death, especially on SP but cannot find anything. Her first marriage to Thomas Heatlie was in 1841 in New Monkland Lanarkshire, he died I believe about 1855? Her second marriage was to a David Chalmers in 1864 in Slamannam Sterlingshire, I cannot find any of them in 1871 or 1881. Elizabeth and David had a daughter in 1866 called Jessie Davidson Chalmers who would have been at home in 1871. Is there any records of inmates in 1885 for this particular workhouse, could some one maybe locate the family in 1871/1881. I don't want to add her death until it can be provern that is where she actually died.
Thankyou in advance
Dawn

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Death confusion-help please
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 14 October 14 18:34 BST (UK) »
Hi DeltaFoxy
I am looking into the familytree of your Elizabeth Ferguson who was married to 1.Thomas Heatlie and 2.David Chalmers, and I am totally confused. I have found Jessie Davidson Chalmers the daughter of Elizabeth and David in 1866 born in Linlithgow Scotland. From what you said above I then found her marriage to David Fairlie in 1885. I have found Davids death in 1953 but it says he was a widower of Jessie Heatlie not Chalmers which didn't make sense, I then looked for Jessies death and found hers in 1914 her maiden name is down as Heatlie not Chalmers, and her parents are John Heatlie and Agnes Ferguson NOT Thomas Heatlie and Elizabeth Ferguson, can you shed any light on this please. I have a few Heatlie trees on the go at the minute as I am trying to find a connection with my Heatlie family.
Thanks in advance
Dawn Heatlie


Dawn, with the confusion on surnames, just as a comment, it feels like David Chalmers may not have featured much after the marriage/birth. Not sure, just a hunch from me...Scottish women love to swap around for surnames (mainly because they never legally lose the right/use of their maiden names). Elizabeth's death is there are you have found. Finding it is just down to spellings really. See:

1885   Elizabeth FERGUSON/HATLIE, aged 54   in LINLITHGOW/WEST LOTHIAN   668/00 0064

Is this the Heatlie/Ferguson line www.lambiefamilytree.microbinson.co.uk/fam121.html

Monica  :)
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline carlineric

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Re: Death confusion-help please
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 14 October 14 22:34 BST (UK) »
The records for the Linlithgow Poor House are held by Lothian Health Service Archive. The admission register for the poor house starts in 1894. There are some earlier records but they seem to be for the asylum part of the poor house although there seems to be a death register for the poorhouse. West Lothian Family History Society have transcribed the registers up to 1909 and I have had searched their CD for Elizabeth but cannot find her.


Eric

Offline worth

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Re: Death confusion-help please
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 15 October 14 10:22 BST (UK) »
Thanks you guys, what a confusing family. Thanks Monika I have now found Elizabeths death on SP and it says she definitely died in the Union workhouse so thanks for that. Eric its strange that she isn't on the Union poor house death record. Has anyone found David Chalmers death at all? In the 1861 census Elizabeth has a lodger living with her called David Chambers, I wonder if that was her future husband, it also states he was born in Ireland, so they could of been there in 1871/1881, just a thought. Monika yes that's the same  Heatlie/Ferguson family I found this link recently on the internet. Just noticed on Elizabeths death record that there is no mention of the name Chalmers and she has gone back to Heatlie again. Confusing.com
Dawn


Offline MonicaL

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Re: Death confusion-help please
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 15 October 14 20:23 BST (UK) »
Confusing.com always...which is why it is fun  ;)

Just some thoughts. Remember that the Poorhouses were not just about inmates but they also offered hospital/nursing facilities to the the poor. Elizabeth may not have been an 'inmate' but may have been there for nursing/medical care when she died. Might explain why she doesn't show on the official records. Having said that, from what Eric has mentioned, the admission register for the Poorhouse started only in 1894. Hard to say. What do you think Eric?

David Chalmers in 1861 as lodger...very likely who she then married don't you think? From 1861, just for background here:

Eliza Hittley 39 washer woman b. Midlothian
Eliza Hittley 11
Robert Hittley 9
Bella Hittley 7
David Chambers 40 visitor, labourer b. Ireland

Address: 2 ? Airdrie, New Monkland Lanarkshire

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline worth

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Re: Death confusion-help please
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 16 October 14 11:46 BST (UK) »
Are there any census records online for Ireland, it might explain where the family is in 1871 and 1881, might be worth a look. When you see that someone has died in the poor house you automatically think the worst, but like you said, Elizabeth could have just been there for medical treatment at the time. I wonder why Elizabeth is down as Heatlie on her death certificate when her married name was Chalmers, you would think her son Robert Heatlie who was the witness on the cert would have said something. Also i have noticed that Thomas Heatlie and Elizabeth stopped registering their childrens birth after 1850, I have the certs for the children before this date but can find none of the children registered after this date. Even though I am working on a few different Heatlie familytrees, including my own, this one keeps pulling me back to it for some reason so i'm determined to try and crack it x x
Dawn

Offline ev

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Re: Death confusion-help please
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 16 October 14 12:40 BST (UK) »
The only complete Census records online for Ireland are 1901 and 1911.

Quote
The original census returns for 1861 and 1871 were destroyed shortly after the censuses were taken. Those for 1881 and 1891 were pulped during the First World War, probably because of the paper shortage. The returns for 1821, 1831, 1841 and 1851 were, apart from a few survivals, notably for a few counties for 1821 and 1831, destroyed in 1922 in the fire at the Public Record Office at the beginning of the Civil War.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/help/history.html


ev
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Offline carlineric

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Re: Death confusion-help please
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 16 October 14 15:55 BST (UK) »
The Lothian Health Services Archive catalogue describes the volume as "Register of Deaths 16 Nov 1859 – 20 Feb 1949". There are very few deaths prior to 1903 - some years with one or two and a number with none. I had a relative who died there in 1893 and she is not included either so I am unsure what the volume actually covers. The details you would get from either the death or admissions register would be minimal - name date of admission, occupation, married or single, date of death / discharge.

Eric