Army pay for wife left at home 1830-40

[josey]

Wondered if anyone can help with a query about army pay for wives left at home in the 1830s/40s?

If the soldier was posted abroad but the wife did not travel with the regiment, did she receive any of his pay? My g g grandfather Philip Murray married in Borrisokane, Tipperary in 1831, enlisted in the 87th in Nenagh in 1837 & served nearly 8 years in the East Indies [Mauritius I think] - I assume there was no home leave in those days  .  Would his wife have been able to collect all or a portion of Philip's wages from the local barracks [Nenagh] or elsewhere to support her & the child born in 1832 [haven't found any others till my g grandfather in 1846, when wife Anne WAS travelling with the regiment]. Or would there have been some way of Philip sending money home? Otherwise how could she have supported herself?

Thank for any information, Josey.

[km1971]

If the soldier was posted abroad but the wife did not travel with the regiment, did she receive any of his pay?

Hi Josey

She was on her own. Or at least what the husband could send her. She did not travel as she was not accepted onto the marriage establishment. There were only a handful of places for the wives of Privates. In the early part of the century they would ballot to see who got the places. Later in the century there were a set number of places depending upon the soldier's rank. A Senior NCO - ie Colour Sergeant and above - had a reserved place.

The number of places doubled at some stage to c40 for Privates. So she may have got one of these, or he was promoted and got an automatic place.

Regarding pay, the soldier could elect to send money via the Paymaster. He would tell the Paymaster how much. The Paymaster would tell Horse Guards/War Office or the regiment's agents - often Cox & Co - via the quarterly pay list and this would be deducted from the money sent out next quarter and it was sent to her. Either in cash or via a note she could cash in at the 'revenue'.

While he was abroad she was probably removed to her home parish. So there could be records there.

I am surprised he joined the 87th as they sailed for Mauritius in February 1831. So he must have known he would be sent there after a few months training. He may have agreed with the Depot for a set amount to be deducted. The Muster Book in Kew will tell you if there any 'Soldier's Remittances'.

They returned to Plymouth in October 1843, so if he served almost eight years overseas he would have enlisted before 1837.

Ken

[josey]

Thank you for that information, Ken.

I am surprised he joined the 87th as they sailed for Mauritius in February 1831. So he must have known he would be sent there after a few months training. He may have agreed with the Depot for a set amount to be deducted. The Muster Book in Kew will tell you if there any 'Soldier's Remittances'.

They returned to Plymouth in October 1843, so if he served almost eight years overseas he would have enlisted before 1837.

Ken

I shall have to look at the Muster Book when I next go to Kew. I could order 1 for each year 1837 - 1842 in advance to save waiting for the retrieval. I attach his enlistment sheet [hope a large excerpt does not infringe copyright]; perhaps he wasn't in Mauritius? Were the 87th in any other areas of the 'East Indies' in that time period?

I'll also see if there are any Borrisokane records; perhaps her family may have kept her?

Thanks again, Josey

MOD COMMENT: Sorry - image removed as it does breach Rootschat Copyright Policy
ADDED: I think it likely that he enlisted to escape the earlier famines, knowing he would be fed in the army!

[silaswall]

My great uncle was sending money to his mother in 1915. Would she have received by the same method?

[josey]

Interesting, silaswall. The arrangements may have been more sophisticated & widespread by WW1.

Josey

[silaswall]

May have been. Am also wondering if an Army wife in 1914 - 1918 had to prove she was married. My great grandparents who had been "happily unmarried" for some years got married when conscription came in.

[km1971]

It was completely different by WW1. Pensions for the widows of 'other ranks' were introduced in 1902, backdated to 1899. They were paid for up to seven years. If they re-married they received a year’s pension and then it stopped. Widows had to prove they had been lawfully married. The pension increased depending upon the number of children. Boys up to the age of 14 and girls up to the age of 16 were classed as children. If they had a mental or physical disability the age was raised to 21.

If the mother died while a pensioner the children carried on receiving a reduced amount. Girls could also receiving funds to attend a sewing school to give them a trade.

They also introduced a set deduction for wife and children when the husband was overseas. It was up to a maximum amount of 9 pence a day, 1s 3d a day for Sergeants and above. The father could send home extra money by postal order. During WW1 and WW2 postal orders were legal tender, so you did not have to exchange it for cash in a Post Office.

Ken

[silaswall]

Thank you. Thought my great grandparents were married as an insurance policy.

[josey]

Hello - hoping for a little more help please..,, still looking for more children for Philip & wife Anne [Sheedy]

Later in the century there were a set number of places depending upon the soldier's rank. A Senior NCO - ie Colour Sergeant and above - had a reserved place.

New records on FindMyPast show that Philip was in Firozpur, India in 1851 as a Colour Sergeant, so can I assume that all the periods he was a sergeant & above, his wife Anne Sheedy
would have travelled with him?
 
These are Philip's periods as sergeant [in between he was reduced to private or corporal after Regimental Courts martial]
Sergeant   20 Nov 1840   16 Jun 1844
Sergeant   15 Oct 1847   2 Sep 1850
Clr Sergeant   3 Sep 1850   20 Aug 1853 [definitely in India 1851]
Prisoner 21 Aug 1853 tried by a Regimental Court Martial 23 Aug 1853 and sentenced to be reduced but on the recommendation of the court ordered to revert to the rank of Platoon Sergeant
Released   Sergeant   24 Aug 1853   28 Oct 1854
Sergeant   26 Sep 1857   27 May 1859

He enlisted in Nenagh 6 Jun 1837 aged 23 discharged ; total service 22 yrs 347 of which 7 268/365 yrs in East Indies remainder at home'. I had assumed the service abroad would more likely be at the beginning of service but it appears it was at the end.

I found this birth:
MURRAY, JULIA       MMN SHEEDY     
GRO Reference: 1849  M Quarter in DAVENTRY UNION  Volume 15  Page 284
Might the 87th have been anywhere near Daventry in 1849? Or do I need to get the birth certificate?

Thanks