Author Topic: Surname Tests - Realistic Expectations  (Read 15659 times)

Offline acorngen

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Re: Surname Tests - Realistic Expectations
« Reply #90 on: Thursday 17 October 13 18:25 BST (UK) »
Devon you said that DNA tests were getting cheaper and would go cheaper still however we have now been told at three different talks that DNA tests will increase in price over the next 2 years has they are moving away from 12 marker and 37 marker tests to a 99 marker test.  They expect the cost to rise back up to the £500 mark again.  FTDnA is supposedly going to be the first to add to this and will also at a cost but cheaper than a full test review the sequencing they hold for those who have already been tested.

Family history is different from genealogy but both come under the same umbrella.  Genetic Genealogy is not family history.  Historical genealogy is not family history either.  The latter is all about finding out all you can about your family.  Historical genealogy is the finding of the names in your tree.  Yes it may be being pedantic

Rob
WYATT, COX, STRATTON, all from south Derbyshire and the STS, LEI border Burns Fellows Gough Wilks from STS in particular Black Country and now heading into SOP

Offline DevonCruwys

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Re: Surname Tests - Realistic Expectations
« Reply #91 on: Tuesday 22 October 13 13:46 BST (UK) »
Devon you said that DNA tests were getting cheaper and would go cheaper still however we have now been told at three different talks that DNA tests will increase in price over the next 2 years has they are moving away from 12 marker and 37 marker tests to a 99 marker test.  They expect the cost to rise back up to the £500 mark again.  FTDnA is supposedly going to be the first to add to this and will also at a cost but cheaper than a full test review the sequencing they hold for those who have already been tested.

Family history is different from genealogy but both come under the same umbrella.  Genetic Genealogy is not family history.  Historical genealogy is not family history either.  The latter is all about finding out all you can about your family.  Historical genealogy is the finding of the names in your tree.  Yes it may be being pedantic

Rob

Rob, I think you must have misheard or misinterpreted what you were told. The tests are getting cheaper. Four years ago an autosomal DNA test would have cost you $499. Now these tests cost just $99 and you also get double the number of markers tested for less money. The mtDNA Plus test that I bought a few years ago for about $150 now costs just $49. The 12-marker Y-DNA test now costs $49. It would have cost $219 in the year 2000. However, for genealogy purposes you would need a 37-marker test which now costs $149 through a project but can usually be purchased in a sale at Christmas for $119 (about £80). For most people wanting to match with the same surname the 37-marker test will suffice but some people will need to upgrade to 67 markers. The 111-marker test is for special situations and more advanced users. The next big advance is full Y-chromosome sequencing but that's likely to be beyond the means of the average family historian for a good few years yet. It currently costs over $1000.

Genealogy is the process of assembling the names in a tree. Family history includes the wider process of putting the flesh on the bones. DNA testing is a tool that is used in combination with documentary records - it is the application of genetics to genealogy. Historical genealogy is not a phrase that I've come across in the family history world. Most of our genealogy is historical so the adjective seems somewhat unnecessary.

Researching: Ayshford, Berryman, Bodger, Boundy, Cruse, Cruwys, Dillon, Faithfull, Kennett, Keynes, Ratty, Tidbury, Trask, Westcott, Wiggins, Woolfenden.

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: Surname Tests - Realistic Expectations
« Reply #92 on: Tuesday 22 October 13 14:24 BST (UK) »
Debbie's right. It isn't that tests are getting more expensive (because they are actually getting cheaper, as she describes), it's that the low-level YDNA tests in particular are being phased out.

I imagine one reason for this is that customers get rather peeved when a 12-marker test tells them essentially nothing. I think this is probably at least partly the company's fault, since the 12-marker test is kind of a shiny-object marketing ploy to draw people in, and they really don't explain that they are unlikely to learn anything useful from it (especially if they are the common or garden English R1b1a2 Y haplogroup, which is really all most people will learn).

The 37-marker test really is the minimum to start with for male surname line matching. My example of how even a 25-marker test can be misleading is an indication (2 steps out at 25 markers, 8 steps out at 37 markers). Testing beyond that can be done to refine matches that are found at 37 markers.

I have only just recently realized how much the cost of the autosomal has fallen and I'm likely going to go for a couple of them. I may be consulting you about that, Debbie. ;)

(A comparative candidate for triangulating is exactly what would help! There are none in my line -- no descendants of the 1817-marriage couple except the males in my line from their grandson and some descendants of his sister, their granddaughter. The new administrator for the surname project that my kit matched is trying to get one of his own very close matches, who has an established Devon line of the name, to get the kit into the surname project -- and hopefully then into yours as well!)
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

Offline DevonCruwys

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Re: Surname Tests - Realistic Expectations
« Reply #93 on: Tuesday 22 October 13 15:56 BST (UK) »
I have only just recently realized how much the cost of the autosomal has fallen and I'm likely going to go for a couple of them. I may be consulting you about that, Debbie. ;)

Do get in touch if you have any questions about autosomal DNA testing. I suggest you start another thread.
Researching: Ayshford, Berryman, Bodger, Boundy, Cruse, Cruwys, Dillon, Faithfull, Kennett, Keynes, Ratty, Tidbury, Trask, Westcott, Wiggins, Woolfenden.


Offline acorngen

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Re: Surname Tests - Realistic Expectations
« Reply #94 on: Monday 28 October 13 02:39 GMT (UK) »
No I didnt hear wrongly at all and this guy actually works for FTDNA he was quite explicit and even put up slides showing what the new tests are expected to cost althogh he did say he wasn't sure when the tests would be rolled out.  He also said that the 12 marker and the other one which I forget will disappear altogether when this new test goes live. 

If I had recorded the lecture I would put it up online but unfortunately I forgot my dictaphone. 

Rob
WYATT, COX, STRATTON, all from south Derbyshire and the STS, LEI border Burns Fellows Gough Wilks from STS in particular Black Country and now heading into SOP

Offline DevonCruwys

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Re: Surname Tests - Realistic Expectations
« Reply #95 on: Monday 28 October 13 10:13 GMT (UK) »
No I didnt hear wrongly at all and this guy actually works for FTDNA he was quite explicit and even put up slides showing what the new tests are expected to cost althogh he did say he wasn't sure when the tests would be rolled out.  He also said that the 12 marker and the other one which I forget will disappear altogether when this new test goes live. 

If I had recorded the lecture I would put it up online but unfortunately I forgot my dictaphone. 

Rob

Rob, Whose lecture did you attend? Chris Pomery is the FTDNA rep for England, and Alasdair Macdonald is the FTDNA rep for Scotland.

I think you have misunderstood what was said. DNA testing is rather like computer processing power or televisions. The costs are tumbling all the time but you now get much more for your money - more STR markers and more SNPs. While some people might want the latest TV or computer with all the bells and whistles the cheaper models will always provide all the basic functions.

The test that was probably being referred to is the full Y chromosome sequence test. This is currently only available from a company called Full Genomes Corporation and costs over $1000. However, such a test is overkill for the average family historian. Full Y chromosome sequencing will allow researchers to compile a complete phylogenetic tree for the Y chromosome. There will no doubt be chips that will allow people to test for the more recent SNPs that will be of most relevance for genealogy. There seem to be hints that FTDNA will be announcing something new at their group administrators' conference in November.

If you come to WDYTYA Live in London in February we can answer all your questions there.
Researching: Ayshford, Berryman, Bodger, Boundy, Cruse, Cruwys, Dillon, Faithfull, Kennett, Keynes, Ratty, Tidbury, Trask, Westcott, Wiggins, Woolfenden.