Author Topic: John Smith marriage and burial help please  (Read 3176 times)

Offline weenie

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John Smith marriage and burial help please
« on: Tuesday 08 April 14 23:35 BST (UK) »
Hi all,

im trying to  locate the marriage of John Smith and Elizabeth Jones, on their daughters birth it does say Elizabeth Smith formally Jones, and the youngest child was born 1862, i have John in the 1851 census aged 14 on census, but aged 16. living  with his parents. the 1851 census was in Derwen, Denbigh. and the 1861 they are Abenbury Fachan (apologies if spelt incorrectly )

i just cannot seem to find one that fits.

also i have his death and burial and wondered which place would it be, it just says Brymbo on findmypast, he was buried 8th jan 1890. was a wheelwright and died due to slipping on ice, on to his bottle of tea and fracturing two ribs which then punctured his lungs.. bless him

any help is greatly appriciated

Weenie
Names i am researching are: Riley, Peaker, Jones,Smith, Dobson, Ford, Humphries, Cross, Peckston, Power, Raby, Raper, Snipe Hulse, Whelan, Darling, Morton, Wild, Moss, Ibbotson, Grimes, Broadbelt, Jowett, Nicholson
Areas of interest: Leeds, Castleford, Wakefield, Kent, Westham, Northumberland, Lancashire, Pontefract,  Flintshire, Liverpool

Offline wrjones

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Re: John Smith marriage and burial help please
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 09 April 14 00:13 BST (UK) »
The only marriage I can see in the wider area is one which is given as having taken place in the Whitchurch District of Shropshire in the Oct/Nov/Dec quarter of 1856 between a John Smith and an Elizabeth Jones.Volume 6a,Page 1445.UKBMD does give the marriage as a definite pairing.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Jones, Griffiths. Stephens, Parry, Gabriel, Conway, Hughes, Evans, Roberts, Lea, Hanmer. Peake, Edwards. Newnes, Davies. Thomas. "Blythin".
All North Wales.
Conway, Durber, Cartlidge, Lovatt, Bebington. Brindley, Sankey, Brunt. Dean. Clewes. Rhodes. Mountford,Walker,Bache, "Gibbons"Hood. Taylor
All Stoke-on-Trent.
Francis - Nantwich Cheshire.
Dennell - Cheshire/Staffordshire.
Talbot-Shropshire
Census Information Is Crown Copyright,from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline wrjones

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Re: John Smith marriage and burial help please
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 09 April 14 00:22 BST (UK) »
By the way I don't fancy your 1851 entry in Derwen one bit for John Smith!

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Jones, Griffiths. Stephens, Parry, Gabriel, Conway, Hughes, Evans, Roberts, Lea, Hanmer. Peake, Edwards. Newnes, Davies. Thomas. "Blythin".
All North Wales.
Conway, Durber, Cartlidge, Lovatt, Bebington. Brindley, Sankey, Brunt. Dean. Clewes. Rhodes. Mountford,Walker,Bache, "Gibbons"Hood. Taylor
All Stoke-on-Trent.
Francis - Nantwich Cheshire.
Dennell - Cheshire/Staffordshire.
Talbot-Shropshire
Census Information Is Crown Copyright,from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline weenie

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Re: John Smith marriage and burial help please
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 09 April 14 13:01 BST (UK) »
the cert for whitechurch i have and i dont think its there one as i bought it for another line, yes i have Jones marrying Smith and jones and jones and smith and smith on both my grandfathers lines, i thought it was for the his paternal line, but wasnt,

i dont think its that one as the father is wrong as well as the age difference. John is 37 and elizabeth is 26 on that one.

why dont you think the 51 census is John's??

any help greatly on this would be appriciated many thanks

weenie 
Names i am researching are: Riley, Peaker, Jones,Smith, Dobson, Ford, Humphries, Cross, Peckston, Power, Raby, Raper, Snipe Hulse, Whelan, Darling, Morton, Wild, Moss, Ibbotson, Grimes, Broadbelt, Jowett, Nicholson
Areas of interest: Leeds, Castleford, Wakefield, Kent, Westham, Northumberland, Lancashire, Pontefract,  Flintshire, Liverpool


Offline wrjones

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Re: John Smith marriage and burial help please
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 09 April 14 13:22 BST (UK) »
As far as the 1851 entry is concerned,one only has to look at the birthplace given in the later entries.With that in mind I'll go further and state that the John Smith in Derwen in 1851 is definitely not the one found in the later entries.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Jones, Griffiths. Stephens, Parry, Gabriel, Conway, Hughes, Evans, Roberts, Lea, Hanmer. Peake, Edwards. Newnes, Davies. Thomas. "Blythin".
All North Wales.
Conway, Durber, Cartlidge, Lovatt, Bebington. Brindley, Sankey, Brunt. Dean. Clewes. Rhodes. Mountford,Walker,Bache, "Gibbons"Hood. Taylor
All Stoke-on-Trent.
Francis - Nantwich Cheshire.
Dennell - Cheshire/Staffordshire.
Talbot-Shropshire
Census Information Is Crown Copyright,from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: John Smith marriage and burial help please
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 09 April 14 14:18 BST (UK) »

im trying to  locate the marriage of John Smith and Elizabeth Jones,
daughters birth it does say Elizabeth Smith formally Jones, youngest child was born 1862,


Is this the John & Elizabeth Smith you are  referring too?
and it is their
daughter Louisa’s b/c you have giving her mmn Jones?

1881 RG11; Piece: 5515; Folio: 3; Page: 2;
John Smith 46 Kings Mill Flintshire occ wheelwright
Elizth. 50 Bersham Denbighshire
Sarah Ann Elizth 8 Kings Mill Flintshire

1871 RG10; Piece: 5654; Folio: 12; Page: 13
Cottage Pentre
John Smith 36 Kings Mill Flintshire occ Wheelwright
Elizabeth 40 Wrexham Denbighshire
Louisa 8 Kings Mill
Albert 6
Arthur 4
Adah 5mths

1861 RG9; Piece: 4284; Folio: 4; Page: 2
Abenbury Road, Abenbury Fechan
John Smith 26 Flintshire occ Wheelwright
Elizabeth 30 Denbighshire

Is it possible that Elizabeth was previously married?

There are for instance two  marriages in Wrexham 1852, 1855
(Abenbury Fechan Denbighshire is in the registration district of Wrexham)

John Smith
named on the  same page
Elizabeth Thomas other female name on same page Ellen Piercy(1852)
Elizabeth Dodd other female name on same page Mary Edwards(1855)

Do you have Elizabeth Jones on the 1851 census?

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline weenie

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Re: John Smith marriage and burial help please
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 09 April 14 14:29 BST (UK) »
hi @wrjones, im trying to locate another 51 census for John, but as ancestry have him attached to the one mentione its not letting me look at them,, and FindMyPast has just change over for me in mid search so now have 3000 hits arghh i will keep looking,

@ ladyhawk yes thats the family, Sarah annie elizabeth smith is my gt grandmother, i dont have her mum before the 61 census im trying to locate them hence the marriage request. on Sarah's birth (which for once made easy to locate) it says formally Jones, no other name, i have had a few where they were married before and got all 3 names new surname, previous and maiden

Weenie
Names i am researching are: Riley, Peaker, Jones,Smith, Dobson, Ford, Humphries, Cross, Peckston, Power, Raby, Raper, Snipe Hulse, Whelan, Darling, Morton, Wild, Moss, Ibbotson, Grimes, Broadbelt, Jowett, Nicholson
Areas of interest: Leeds, Castleford, Wakefield, Kent, Westham, Northumberland, Lancashire, Pontefract,  Flintshire, Liverpool

Offline wrjones

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Re: John Smith marriage and burial help please
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 09 April 14 14:38 BST (UK) »
As far as an 1851 entry for John Smith its pretty difficult given the later Census entries.Given the location of his stated birth, I'm afraid you have to search across four counties,Cheshire/Denbighshire/Flintshire and Shropshire.

I'm not just offering this to make things more difficult,its just my experience of searching for people born in the area in my Tree.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Jones, Griffiths. Stephens, Parry, Gabriel, Conway, Hughes, Evans, Roberts, Lea, Hanmer. Peake, Edwards. Newnes, Davies. Thomas. "Blythin".
All North Wales.
Conway, Durber, Cartlidge, Lovatt, Bebington. Brindley, Sankey, Brunt. Dean. Clewes. Rhodes. Mountford,Walker,Bache, "Gibbons"Hood. Taylor
All Stoke-on-Trent.
Francis - Nantwich Cheshire.
Dennell - Cheshire/Staffordshire.
Talbot-Shropshire
Census Information Is Crown Copyright,from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline weenie

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Re: John Smith marriage and burial help please
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 09 April 14 14:44 BST (UK) »
i am very grateful William, i understand what you mean, i think i may have found John on another 51 census, as a farm servant im sure it says kings mill for the birth

Weenie
Names i am researching are: Riley, Peaker, Jones,Smith, Dobson, Ford, Humphries, Cross, Peckston, Power, Raby, Raper, Snipe Hulse, Whelan, Darling, Morton, Wild, Moss, Ibbotson, Grimes, Broadbelt, Jowett, Nicholson
Areas of interest: Leeds, Castleford, Wakefield, Kent, Westham, Northumberland, Lancashire, Pontefract,  Flintshire, Liverpool