Author Topic: charles edward dove  (Read 15228 times)

Offline seahall

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Re: charles edward dove
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 18 November 10 18:53 GMT (UK) »
What have you been doing whilst I had had my tea.   ::)

On the 1901 Census Charles is at Aldershot as a Driver.

There is a possible person in the next one.

I don't want to lead the wrong way as before so will
leave upto you all to see if it is a possibilty.

Sandy
Census Crown Copyright

Offline jesscat

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Re: charles edward dove
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 25 November 10 18:17 GMT (UK) »
 thanks guys I've no idea if he was married or had kids. I know more abt alfred.Did find 2 charles edward dove 1 in the royal field art 1914 _1920.The 2nd royal army service. will look at suggestions.
I remeber  :)   :) :)

Offline Stooby

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Re: charles edward dove
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 14 December 13 01:25 GMT (UK) »
Hi jesscat,
On a strange impulse tonight, I searched Charles Edward Dove Northampton and found this thread. I realise it's an old thread and this reply will surprise you if you are still active on this forum. I've registered specifically to communicate with you. Please post if you are still here and I will tell you all I know. Your great uncle is without doubt my grandfather, my father being his youngest son, Alfred (again). He actually had five children, but conventional means will sadly not find them. He was a remarkable man. I really hope you see this or if someone knows you, please help us make this connection. Fingers crossed.

All the best.

Offline carol8353

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Re: charles edward dove
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 14 December 13 08:00 GMT (UK) »
Hello Stooby and welcome to Rootschat.

Jesscat is still active on the boards,she was last here on Saturday 23 November 13,so she should be notified that you have posted here and come back and reply to you.

You can send each other PM's (personal messages) once you have made at least 3 postings here,reply to this and that'll be your 2nd one!

All the best

Carol  :)
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Stooby

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Re: charles edward dove
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 14 December 13 20:41 GMT (UK) »
Hi Carol,
Thank you so much for the reply. I'm so pleased that contact is possible. It would have been awful if I couldn't pass on what I know. I haven't got into genealogy yet, but I'm being drawn towards having a serious go. If I had spent years researching my father's family, I would have followed completely the wrong line. A very few years ago I found out the information to make it possible, which is very interesting and will make the missing links for jesscat to follow. I obviously have a relative that I knew nothing of until yesterday. Fascinating stuff, eh? Thanks again for helping.

All the best,
Stuart

Offline jesscat

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Re: charles edward dove
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 17 December 13 16:43 GMT (UK) »
 :)  Hi stooby 

RE Charles Edward Dove . My great uncle Charles had  a brother & sister. Alfred , Emma was the youngest. Alfred was my granddad. I have a copy of Charles birth & death certificate also a transcription of the 1911 census. I have little other inform. Their mothers maiden was Abram. Therefore it would be interesting to find out if he is the same person.                                                                                                                       

 

Offline Stooby

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Re: charles edward dove
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 18 December 13 02:42 GMT (UK) »
Hi jesscat,
I'm delighted that we've made contact and I can share what I know with you. From the information already posted, I'm certain that it's the same man. I'll post what I know here rather than in a PM, as it's an interesting story and throws a light on how much has changed by way of attitudes over the last century. It's also a cautionary tale for researchers, illustrating just how easy it is to follow the wrong line if a little piece of information is unknown to you. By the way, welcome to the family! Here goes then:-
My father's name was Alfred John West, or at least I thought so until a very few years ago. He was always known as John. Sadly, I lost him two years ago at 96 and my mother followed at 85 in February this year. I'm 63 and have a younger brother and sister. My Dad had never told me much about his father and seemed slightly reluctant to do so, but I never read any more into it. All I knew was that he loved his parents and said what lovely people they both were. He did mention that his father died relatively young, believed to be caused by experiences in WW1. Gassing maybe or just terrible conditions? I knew he was buried in Billing Road Cemetery, because my mother used to take me there as a child to lay flowers for both of my grandfathers and my paternal grandmother. My father was born at 47 West Street ( yes, really) in October 1915. He was one of nine West children (or again, so I thought). Eight survived and one died at about 22. There was an enormous spread in their ages and his older sisters were old enough to be his mother. He always said that he had about three mothers and was well spoiled by them. All fairly normal up to now, but then things took a turn and I found out that I'm not who I thought I was.
One day about ten years ago, I spotted a document that Dad had left on the table when I visited. It showed his name as A J D West, which I had never seen before. I asked him if it was a mistake and he gave me a long look before he said "I suppose I'd better tell you, or you'll never know who you really are". To my amazement, I discovered that the 'D' stood for Dove, that his father's name was Dove, not West and that we all really had the wrong surname. Wow. The tale then unfolded. His mother, Ada West, had been married to Mr West and had four children. For some reason, Mr West suddenly upped sticks and went to America. Dad didn't really seem to know why, but did say that his two oldest sisters had gone out to visit him once, not long after. After that, he seems to have disappeared for good. I'd love to know the full story on that one. Mr and Mrs West were never divorced. Anyway, at some point not known, along came your great uncle, Charles Edward Dove and promptly fell in love with the abandoned Mrs West. Dad told me they were devoted to each other. Along the line, they had a child, which was decidedly not approved of in those days. They registered that child, as you would today, with the surname Dove. Apparently, they then had extreme grief from the Registrar for doing so and were told that it was unacceptable. However, it was too late to alter the official records and the name stood. In time, four more children came along and they were forced to register them with their mother's surname, West. That's why you couldn't find them. I now have Dad's birth certificate and was shocked to see that there is no father's name on it, although there's no doubt that it was Charles Dove. Whether the other three kids had the same thing I don't know, but I would expect so. What a terrible way for officialdom to treat a loving father. So, nine kids, eight Wests and one Dove on the records, where in reality there were four Wests and five Doves. Whether all of the last four had the Dove middle name I don't know. Dad was very proud it.
The message is apparently too long, so I'll send a second post as part 2.

Offline Stooby

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Re: charles edward dove
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 18 December 13 02:43 GMT (UK) »
Sorry about the break. Technology is very inflexible.

I asked why he'd never told me this before, as I was far from a child and he explained that his parents had come under enormous social pressure because of their unmarried state and he had always felt that there was a stigma attached to him because of their relationship. A very old fashioned view today, but I think it was ingrained in him over many years and he had never grasped the enormity of that change. Very quaint.
The family moved to 75 Cloutsham Street at some point, and after Charles died, my Dad lived with his mother and looked after her when she became ill with breast cancer. He absolutely adored her and wouldn't consider marrige until after she died in 1948. He married my mother a few months later and I was born at that same address in 1950, but moved to Sheep Street shortly afterwards.
So there you have your answers, or at least some of them. I do also know that Charles served with The 2nd Battalion, The Northamptonshire Regiment in WW1 and shows up on the Roll of Honour, giving his address as Cloutsham Street.
For some reason unknown to me, Dad had no real contact with his brothers and I never knew them. His siblings were Maud, Edie, Ivy, Violet, Dorothy(who died young), Charlie, Joe and Bill. I knew all of the girls, except Dorothy and was very close to Maud(the eldest) and Ivy. they were all truly lovely people who would have made their parents proud. Dad was the youngest and also the last survivor. I only know two of my cousins, but I know of several others. The one you may be interested in is Barry Dove, who ran an electrical company in Northampton, but I don't know which of Charles's sons was his father. I've never met him, but he's a missing link for you. I may be able to find out more about his father from one of my cousins. Finally, I know of only one photo of Charles and one of Ada. I haven't finished sorting out since Mum died, but I'm praying that they turn up.
I've gone rambling on, so I'll leave it at that for now. I hope it helps to fit the pieces together for you. I just wish my Dad was here to tell him of this encounter with one of his uncle's family. He would have been both amazed at the tecnologythat made it possible and delighted that it had happened. Are you still local to Northampton?

Take care, have a good Christmas and Happy New Year.
All the best,
Stuart West (Dove?)

Offline jesscat

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Re: charles edward dove
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 18 December 13 23:47 GMT (UK) »
Hello stuart

Well it was a surprise.After I posted my reply I had a few tears. I can tell you have more relatives in Northampton, and 1 in Scotland. I didn't know until I looked at the census that Alfred had a brother & sister.
 Alfred William Dove b 1887 @ St Katherines st Northampton to a Thomas & Sarah Dove. He worked as a clicker in one of the shoe factories. In 1912 he married Eleanor Lucy Payne aged 28yrs. On marriage certificate the address is Moat st for both of them. Alfred served in the Royal army medical corps in ww1. He was Ypres. After which he again worked in shoe industry. 1921 my uncle Reg was born followed by my mum Joan in 1925 in 1927 they had another daughter Irene.He also had 2 stepsons I think they were younger.Colin & Norman.
  Lucy died in 1939 they lived in Bath st by this time. Charles died in the same year death due to pulmonary t b. His death was registered by E.Gibbs sister at  Moat Rd.
Alfred remarried in 1947. He died in 1960.

 Reg had 3 kids Tony Wendy & Peter .Joan had me and my brother. Rene married twice but no children.
 My mum died 1988 aged 62.Dad died in sept this year aged 91.
I have traced the Doves back to a Robert Dove in Duston abt 1790.
   I have lots of photos  of Alfred.He was a tall man and he was always smartly dressed & wore a trilby hat. We used visited Northampton he and aunty Alice lived in Lorne Rd.
  Reg died in 1987 Rene in 2006.