Old Moffat Cemetery - John Loudon McAdam - Margaret Reid / McAdam / Johnston

[Robuste]

Does anyone have any details for the burial of John Loudon McAdam. He is supposedly buried in his grandmothers grave. There is a horizontal stone adjacent i think but the inscription is not readable.
Margaret died in 1766 we think and JLM in 1836.

Also does anyone know if his second wife Anne Charlotte nee Delancy is buried in the same grave.
The stone inscription includes her in memory but does that necessarily mean she is buried there.

We are particularly questioning this as apparently JLM's second marriage was apposed by his family.
(His present day descendants approve though )

Any help would be appreciated as I hope to be in Moffat in Sept 2014.

Rod McAdam New Zealand

[Johnner Kid]

This photo was taken some 12 years ago, resolution is poor, I thought I had a better one -- can't find it.  Hope it helps.

Sy

[Robuste]

HI there Johnner Kid
Thanks for that ... that should certainly help me find it:)
Hopefully another reader will be able to help with the burial details and maybe information on the Johnston family who presumably owned Dumcrieff House at some point?

[Johnner Kid]

Hello Again Rod,
I was in the DGFHS Research Centre on Saturday past and checked their records.  The MI in the image above is not very clear.  Here is the exact inscription for this memorial to John Louden ADAM.

In Memory of John Louden McADAM  born A ayr 21st September 1756 died at Moffat 26th November 1836 in the 81st year of his age, son of James McADAM of Waterhead who lies buried at Straiton and of Anne Carlotte de LACEY 2nd wife of the above John Louden McADAM born at Bath 17th September 1786 died at Hoddes, Don, Hertfordshire 29th May 1852.

 In 2010 DGFHS published a booklet of MIs for this old Moffat graveyard.

There is just one other McADAM memorial listed. 

You mention JOHNSTON
The booklet lists inscriptions for
 1 JOHNSON  :  39 JOHNSTON  and  29 JOHNSTONE memorials

You also mention Margaret Reid:
there is an inscription on another stone which reads thus:
In memory of the upright, discreet, and judicious Mr Robert JOHNSTON chirurgeon in Moffat who died 17th September 1756 aged 47 years.  Also of Margaret REID wife of the above Robert JOHNSTON who was widow of James McADAM  of Waterhead who lies buried at Carsphairn.
[chirurgeon = surgeon]
Regards
Sy

[Robuste]

Hi there Johnner Kid
Great thanks that fills in a few blanks for us including where James is buried. I have also done some more reading of material I have since your posting.

Margaret nee Reid and her first husband James were the grand parents of John Loudon McAdam.
Supposedly John Loudon was buried in his grandmothers grave at his request. Devereux p 32 mentions the request but does not confirm if it happened, not on that page anyway. Devereux p 31 says that Dr Johnston(e) is buried next to Margaret in affect.

1 Do you know where the Johnston Tomb is in relation to John Loudon McAdam's?

2 Would you take it from the wording on JLM's tombstone that Anne Carlotte de LACEY is buried there too? or is that taking the "In Memory of" too far? Would she have been taken from Hoddesdon in England to Moffat for Burial in those days?

3 According to Devereux p 31 Margaret when widowed went to live at Dumcrieff, Moffat where she ultimately married Dr Johnston(e), though she got the date wrong. James died ~1729. Margaret Married Dr J in 1733. Dr J died 1756 from your posted inscription and Margaret died 1766, not sure where I got that from. According to http://www.dumcrieff.com/content.php?id=175g=0/History , Dumcrieff was owned by Sir John Clerk and his son from 1727 to approx 1783 when it was bought by a Colonel William Johnstone and then rented by John Loudon McAdam for 2 years when he first returned from the USA. Does anyone know what the connection would have been between the Clerk family and the Reid or McAdam or Johnston family for Margaret to have lived at Dumcrieff?

4 Was Colonel William Johnston(e) a descendant or any relation of Dr Robert Johnston?

5 Does anyone know where John Loudon McAdam died in Moffat. Was it at Dumcrieff? I have seen it suggested that he "kept a house in Moffat" This could have been in the town or perhaps a cottage at Dumcrieff? are / were there such a thing?

Regards,
Rod McAdam

[Johnner Kid]

Sorry Rod but I don’t have the information to answers your questions.
Here is the information I do have:
The booklet I referred to was based on a survey made in the 1960s the fifty years since has seen some weathering of the memorials but when I last visited about 10 years ago most stones were still readable. 
Question 1.
Dr Johnston's MI is numbered 37 in the booklet and JLM is 289 which means they are not near each other.  There is not a graveyard plan with the booklet and I doubt if one exists. That problem can sometimes be got around by using the MI booklet.
Locate the memorials for a sequence of numbers near the target stone and you can figure out the track taken by the survey.  I take it from your question that someone intends to to visit Moffat.  There is a small Heritage Centre in the town run by volunteers, located quite near the graveyard, I would call there and see what help the can offer.

Question 2
Scottish gravestones are family Memorials not necessarily a record of who is buried there.
They often list family members buried else where even those buried abroad.

Cheers,
Sy

[Robuste]

Hi there Johnner Kid / Sy

Thanks for your help. Yes I will be in Scotland in the Second week in Sept and will be visiting Moffat.
A lot of things and properties etc I want to see, so trying to do as much research ahead of time as I can. Not that this hasn't been going on for the last 10 years but it has suddenly become more urgent May first port of call will be the Carsphairn Heritage Centre, as that is probably "McAdam Central" but will certainly visit your local one too.
Hopefully these posts will be read for a while yet and maybe someone with Duncrieff and Johnston family knowledge might see them

Since my last post I have read that there were some connections between the Clerk family of Dumcrieff, and the Ramsay and hence Kennedy and Shaw-Kennedy families, and also the Cochrane family so that might explain the connections with Dumcrieff though how Margaret (My 6G's Grandmother) came to be living there is less than clear at this stage. I will try and contact the owners of the property as well, and see if they have more historical information than is published on their web site.

Regards,

Rod

[Johnner Kid]

Hi Rod,
Have you made contact with Carsphairn Heritage group? 
I had a look at what we had in the DGFHS Research Centre about their graveyard this afternoon.
James is not identified against any memorial stone.  There is a general plaque above a gate, it reads thus:
McAdam site:
Inscription over gate Burial place of the McAdams of Waterhead ancestors of John Loudon McAdam who invented the system of roadmaking now generally adopted & known by his name
Gilbert McAdam and his son James brother-in-law & nephew of Roger Dun both notable covenanters were buried here. The former was shot by King’s troops near Kirkmichael Village 1682-5.
That covers everything  I could locate in Dumfries

Cheers,
Sy

[Robuste]

Hi there Sy

Thanks again

I have been in touch with them in the past... and an email with some specific requests is on the todo list for this week. Particularly wanting contact details for Sauchrie and Ballochmorrie properties and a few other things. I am aware of the McAdam enclosure there... but had hoped there might be a stone.... it seems not
Thanks again for your help

Rod