Hope Wincle papermaker

[AshbrookCheshire]

I'm looking for any help on Thomas HOPE of Wincle.

I know from his son-in-law's Will that he lived at the White Lee, Wincle, and from the 'net I've found that he was a paper maker, and ran both Folly Mill and Whitelee Mill. He had at least two children, Peter and Ann. Thomas was living in Wincle from at least 1798-1829 and his daughter Ann was married in 1818.

I can't find baptisms for the children, their mothers name or a death for Thomas (so I'm not doing very well!). I'm hoping someone has an interest in the Hope family or in Wincle paper mills.

Thanks in advance,

[garstonite]

Try these out
all baptised in Wincle - parents Thomas Hope and Audrey
Eliza Hope 18th June 1804
Ellen Hope 2nd July 1806
Harriot Hope 4th dec 1808
William Hope 5th April 1812
can`t find the marriage to see what Audreys maiden name was though??
allan
added...is this the marriage of Ann ?
John Goodwin to Ann Hope 27th May 1818 in Prestbury ? ( not Wincle , so probably not - can`t find a marriage for Ann Hope 1818 in Wincle )

[mshrmh]

garstonite - the 1818 marriage is probably the one AshbrookCheshire has, as Wincle was a chapelry to Prestbury.

I've looked at the tithe maps for Wincle & found
Plot 42 Peter Hope occupier of House & Garden
http://maps.cheshire.gov.uk/tithemaps/Search.aspx#Tab2

I also tried searching for White in Wincle plot names - results included White Lee Clough and White Lee Wood. There were no results for Folly.
The Wincle website has a piece that mentions both mills, which you may already have seen:
http://www.wincle.org.uk/history_mill.html

I've family who lived in Wincle - from experience, the area is so close to the Staffs & Derbyshire borders they can sometimes be found nearby, but in one of these counties (as well as other parts of Cheshire). You may need to widen the scope of your searches to find his marriage and death.

[AshbrookCheshire]

Thanks to both of you.

Yes, that's the right marriage garstonite, it's from John Goodwin's Will that I know about the Hope family. I've looked at those baptisms, but they seem a little late for Ann to be their older sister (although it is possible), it seems possible as we now have the two older children in Rushton, but still no sign of Ann or Peter.

I suspect you could be right mshrmh, I've  got family who came in the other direction (lived in Horton and Leek but baptised children at Wincle) so the Hope family could have done similar, baptising their children in the parish they were from. However, with no hint as to which Staffordshire or Derbyshire parish to look for them in, and without either being well indexed online, I may be stuck for while.

Following your idea, I've just looked in the 1840 census, and there is a Peter Hope, Paper Maker, living at Folly Grove Wincle, born about 1801, with sons Thomas and Samuel. I strongly suspect this is Peter, sister to 'my' Ann and son of Thomas, but can't yet prove it.   

Looking at Rushton Parish records, there is a
22-Jan-1797   Audry Hope   Dau   Thomas   Audry   White Lee   
13-Jan-1799   Richard Hope   Son   Thomas   Audrey   by Paper Mill   -   


This would strongly suggest that it is 'my' Thomas that is married to Audrey, however still no baptism for Ann or Peter to confirm it. I also don't see why they changed from baptising their children in Rushton to Wincle, while still living at White Lee

[trish1120]

When was Ann born?
Is it possible Thomas/Audrey were from Wales originally?

Cheshire Bishops Transcripts on Familysearch.Org;
ANN Hope, 09 February 1788, Hanmer, Flint, Wales to THOS/AUDERY
+
MARY Hope, 17 April 1786, Worthenbury, Flint. Wales
THOMAS Hope, April 1790, Hanmer, Flint, Wales

Another coincidence is a Thomas/Audrey Hope having these Children in Staffs;
AUDREY Hope, 22 Jamuary 1797, Rushton Spencer, Stafford
RICHARD Hope, 13 January 1798, Rushton Spencer, Stafford

I saw a Tree having John Goodwin born c 1777 and dying 1825.

Sorry cant wait for your answer as have to go to bed

[AshbrookCheshire]

I have no idea when Ann was born. I know her husband John Goodwin was buried in Wincle in 1825, so I probably need to make a trip to see if she was buried with him.

It is possible, but I have no idea how I'd prove it!

It may well be that it was my tree you saw ;-).

[AshbrookCheshire]

I think you Wales idea may hold water!

Looking at the 1851 census there is a Thomas Hope, born about 1791, Flintshire, Wales, Paper Manufacturer living in Winkhill Paper Mill, Waterfall, Derbyshire. His first child (another Thomas) was born Prestbury.

 Also there is Thomas's (the head) brother Peter living with them born 1797, Leek, with his son Thomas (a third one!), who I suspect is the Peter Hope I found in the 1841 census.

In 1861 Thomas (the head) lists his son as being born in Wincle.

Therefore it looks like Thomas (Snr), had a couple of children in Wales, inc Thomas (Jr), moved to Wincle and baptised children in Rushton then Wincle. This would make the Thomas in the 1851 and 1861 censuses 'My' Ann's brother.

This looks pretty good now, although I'd love to see the original Flintshire records to see if Thomas (Snr) was a papermaker beforehand

More interesting connections. According to this site http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/Paper.html there was a Paper Mill at  Halghton, Hanmer, Flintshire, where we suspect Thomas and Ann were baptised. There was also a paper mill at Sarn, Worthenbury, where Mary was baptised, and in 1790 the owner  was Simon HOPE. He may be no connection, but might be a relation of 'my' original Thomas.

[mshrmh]

I have no idea when Ann was born. I know her husband John Goodwin was buried in Wincle in 1825, so I probably need to make a trip to see if she was buried with him.

It is possible, but I have no idea how I'd prove it!

It may well be that it was my tree you saw ;-).

I knew Hope rang a bell, I've now checked my tree  . If I have this right (please check) Ann Goodwin (widow) married Edward Gee (widower) at St Peter, Prestbury 14 September 1825 and one of the witnesses was a Hope. Ann is buried with Edward at Wincle - the stone has also has two Goodwins from 1876 & 1901 as well as a granddaughter of Edward & Ann. Please PM me with an e-mail address if you want a copy of the photo I have. I do have Ann as born Wales c1787, if that matches.

[trish1120]

Well how exciting mshrmh

Is this them but Ann is shown as born Shropshire in 1851.
By 1861 in Wales.

1841 Census
Northbeds?,
Prestbury, Cheshire
HO107/107/17/Prestbury
Edward GEE, 60, Farmer, Not born in County
ANN Gee, 50, Not born in County
Harriot Gee, 14
Sarah Gee, 20, Not born in County
William Gee, 10
Thomas GOODWIN, 75, M S
John Goodwin, 74, M S
All others born in County
Thomas/John Goodwins ages are hard to work out they may be 15/14

1851 Census
Nettlebeds,
Wincle, Cheshire
HO107/2161/285/3
Edward GEE, 71, Head, Mar, Farmer of 60 Acres, born Stoke, Staffs
ANN, 61, Wife, Mar, born Tallant Green, Shropshire
Harriett, 24, Daug, Unm, born Wincle, Cheshire
William, 23, Son, Unm, born Wincle
Mary Ann, 18mths, Grand/Daug, born Wincle
John SUTTON, 17, Servant, Unm, Farm Servant, born Wincle

1861 Census
Nettle-Beds
Wincle, Cheshire
RG9/2585/98/1
Ann GEE, 73, Head, Widow, Farmer of 60 Acres, born Wales, Wellington
+ SARAH Gee 47 born Staffs and WILIAM Gee 33 born Wincle, Cheshire.

Trish