Author Topic: Please help me break my long-standing Sanfey/Sanphy brick wall!  (Read 4526 times)

Offline 777777

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Please help me break my long-standing Sanfey/Sanphy brick wall!
« on: Tuesday 12 August 14 19:26 BST (UK) »
My great-grandmother (paternal grandfather's mother) Ellen O'Brien née Sanfey died in February 1955 in Oylegate, Co. Wexford, 9 months before her husband John O'Brien died. My grandparents lived with them in their final five years and looked after them. My grandfather died in 1969, but my grandmother is still alive and has told me all she can about the Sanfey family.

Through my own research (and with the help of my grandmother's excellent memory) I've discovered that Ellen was one of eleven children of Francis Sanphy/Sanfey and Ellen Murphy. The children are as follows:

James (Jim), b. c.1863, no baptismal record located. Moved to Dublin, married Bridget Lawless in 1887 and had issue. Died March 1940 in Dublin.

Thomas (Tom), b. c.1864, no baptismal record located. Moved to Dublin, married Mary Dunne (date unknown) and had issue, after her death married Mary McLeague in 1910 and had further issue. Died 1941 in Dublin.

Twins Francis (Frank) and Sarah (Sally), b. 15/04/1867 (I have their birth certs, on which their surname is given as 'Sanphy') and baptised in Oylegate/Glenbrien. Frank died in infancy (1869), Sally moved to Dublin and married Jim Harpur and had issue. Don't know her date of death but presume it was early as her only child Jim was raised by his grandmother in Wexford.

Anastatia (Nan), b. 16/02/1869, baptised in Oylegate/Glenbrien. Married John Cullen in 1895 and had issue. Died 17/11/1947 in Wexford.

Mary (Molly) Sanfey (note this is the first instance in this family of this spelling of the name - all birth/baptism records from now on are Sanfey or, in one case, Sanfy), b. 02/04/1871, baptised in Oylegate/Glenbrien. Never married, no issue, died in 1925, buried in the cemetery at St David's Church Oylegate with her mother and my great-grandparents (her sister and brother-in-law).

Margaret, b. 04/05/1873, baptised in Oylegate/Glenbrien, moved to Dublin and married Thomas Keogh in 1895, had issue. Died in childbirth 07/03/1910 in Dublin.

Francis (Frank), b. 08/02/1876, baptised in Oylegate/Glenbrien. Moved to Dublin and married Mary Ringwood in 1900 and had issue. Died 1944 in Dublin.

Ellen, b. 15/03/1878. Died in infancy.

Ellen (my great-grandmother, b. 06/05/1879, baptised in Oylegate/Glenbrien. Married John Brien in 1906, they lived on Power's Row in Oylegate (houses built for employees of Power's Distillery).

Michael (Mick), b. c.1884. Can't find a baptismal record for him, age approximation is from census records. Moved to Dublin and married Ellen Hoare in 1913 and had issue, many of whom are still living.

I cannot find a marriage record for Frank/Francis Sanfey/Sanphy and Ellen Murphy in Oylegate. I have scoured the parish registers many times, it is definitely not there. There is no record of any Sanfeys/Sanphys in Oylegate before Frank and Sally's birth in 1867.

According to my grandmother, Frank was from Kilkenny and Ellen was a native of Oylegate. This ties in with a baptismal record I have found for an Ellen Murphy baptised 23rd May 1841, from Tomlane, Oylegate, with parents Thomas Murphy and Sally Dunne. This makes sense from a naming point of view as second son is named Thomas and first recorded daughter is Sally (I suspect I am missing another daughter, poss died in infancy, from early on). Frank died 26th July 1898 of pneumonia, I have his death cert. Ellen died 18th July 1928 in Oylegate. Ellen is buried in St David's, Oylegate with my great-grandparents, don't know where Frank is buried. That cemetery was not open by the time he died. A local old man claims Frank Sanfey is buried in an unmarked grave in Glenbrien, but his name is not on the burial records, so I suspect he was buried in Garrynisk, the other old cemetery in the area, but can't find his grave (the cemetery is in very bad condition). My grandmother says her parents-in-law used to visit both Glenbrien and Garrynisk cemeteries, so she assumes Frank is buried in one of those. Their address is listed as Ballynaslaney on the birth and baptismal records, but by the time of Frank's death and the 1901 census they were living in Oylegate town.

Frank's parentage is a mystery. There was another Sanfey family in Oylegate, and according to my grandmother Frank and his cousin (also Frank) had moved from Kilkenny to Oylegate. This other Frank married Bridget Feehan and had lots of children at the same time as my Frank and his Ellen were having children. I suspect my Frank's father was called James because he named his first son James, and this was of course the naming convention of the time (this is also why I think I'm missing a daughter, because their 'first' daughter was named Sally after Ellen's mother, although there of course is the possibility that both Ellen and Frank's mothers were called Sally).

<b>continued in next post</b>

Offline 777777

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Re: Please help me break my long-standing Sanfey/Sanphy brick wall!
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 12 August 14 19:27 BST (UK) »
I've found a marriage record for a James Sanphy and Bridget Murphy 18th August 1833 in Gowran, Co. Kilkenny, as well as other records for various Sanphys/Samphys in this area. James Sanphy, from the land records, appears to have lived in Bishop's Lough, Ballyreddin, and a Richard Samphy of Bishop's Lough was involved in a land dispute with Richard Shee, the landlord, in the early part of the 19th century - I suspect this was James' father. However, I don't even know if this James is related to me.

Samphy/Sanphy/Sanfey seems to have been confined to Kilkenny until my ancestor went to Wexford, although a similar name, Sampey, comes up in Roscommon. I don't know if there is any connection. There are also records of a Solomon Samphey/Samphee in Dublin in the 17th century, I wonder if there is any connection. It is not a common surname. There are also Sanphy families in Australia and in Prince Edward Island, Canada, that originate from Ireland. I have been in touch with the Sanphys in Australia, they originate from a couple called William Sanphy and Mary Rochford in Kilkenny.

Basically, I'm trying to find out conclusively who Frank Sanphy's parents were. I can't find a church marriage record for Frank and Ellen, I can't find a baptism record for Frank, and I can't find any living person who knows anything other than Frank came from Kilkenny with his cousin. I've been working on this mystery for several years now, and wondered if the good people of Rootschat would be able to help me at all. Unfortunately Frank died 3 years before the 1901 census, so I don't even have confirmation that he *was* born in Kilkenny.

If you've read this whole thing, thank you for your patience! I would really appreciate any help or suggestions for breaking down my brick wall. I have confirmed the identity of all my other great-great-great-grandparents, so solving this mystery would remove a very irritating hole from my family tree.

Liz

Offline dathai

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Re: Please help me break my long-standing Sanfey/Sanphy brick wall!
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 13 August 14 09:28 BST (UK) »
This man dosent seem to exist before 1896 yet he matches Mary Dunne for a marriage.
Maurice Sanfey/Mary Dunne
Marriage Dublin South
April June 1896
vol 2 page 688

Is this Thomas's marriage
Son John died 1902 wife Mary 1909 both buried Glasnevin with John Dillon as part of address.

Offline josey

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Re: Please help me break my long-standing Sanfey/Sanphy brick wall!
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 13 August 14 09:50 BST (UK) »
These Sanphys appear on Tithe Applotment books [from http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/ also on ancestry]

Sanphy   John   Blanchvillestown   Blanchvilleskill   Kilkenny   1833
Sanphy   John   Blanchvillestown   Blanchvilleskill   Kilkenny   1833
Sanphy   John   Blanchvillestown   Blanchvilleskill   Kilkenny   1833
Sanphy   James   Ballyreddin and Bennetsbridge   Treadingstown   Kilkenny   1828
Sanphy   James   Bishopslough   Tullowheron    Kilkenny   
Sanphy   Richard   Bishopslough   Tullowheron    Kilkenny   
Sanphy   Richard   Ballyreddin   Tullowheron    Kilkenny   
Sanphy   James   Ballyreddin   Tullowheron    Kilkenny   
Sanphy   James   Ballyreddin   Tullowheron    Kilkenny   
Sanphy   Richard   Ballyreddin   Tullowheron    Kilkenny

I found none in the 1796 flax growers list on ancestry.

Griffiths on ancestry has: [first name occupier, second name lessor]   
Michael Sanphy Kilkenny, St. Johns, Gardens/Maudlin Street   
James Sanphy Michael Phelan   Dunbell, Big, Dunbell, Kilkenny   
Michael Sanphy Hannah Brennan   Gardens, St John, Kilkenny   
Richard Sanphy Representatives Richard Shea Esquire   Ballyredding, N, Treadingstown, Kilkenny   
Richard Sanphy Representatives Richard Shea Esquire   Bennetts-bridge, Treadingstown, Kilkenny   
Richard Sanphy Richard Shea Esquire   Bishopslough, W, Tullaherin, Kilkenny   
Anastasia Sanfey Michael Sanfey   Ballynacarrig, Kilpatrick, Wexford   
Michael Sanfey Frederick Solly Flood   Ballynacarrig, Kilpatrick, Wexford   
Mary Bent Michael Sanfey   Ballynacarrig, Kilpatrick, Wexford   
John Kinsella Michael Sanfey   Ballynacarrig, Kilpatrick, Wexford   
Unoccupied Michael Sanfey   Ballynacarrig, Kilpatrick, Wexford

Quite a few births/baptisms on ancestry in Thomastown, Co Kilkenny in the 1860s.

Josey
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON


Offline 777777

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Re: Please help me break my long-standing Sanfey/Sanphy brick wall!
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 13 August 14 13:10 BST (UK) »
This man dosent seem to exist before 1896 yet he matches Mary Dunne for a marriage.
Maurice Sanfey/Mary Dunne
Marriage Dublin South
April June 1896
vol 2 page 688

Is this Thomas's marriage
Son John died 1902 wife Mary 1909 both buried Glasnevin with John Dillon as part of address.

That's interesting, I can't find any other reference to Maurice Sanfey either. Yes that's Tom's marriage, they lived on John Dillon St. Thank you!

Offline 777777

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Re: Please help me break my long-standing Sanfey/Sanphy brick wall!
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 13 August 14 13:15 BST (UK) »
These Sanphys appear on Tithe Applotment books [from http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/ also on ancestry]

Sanphy   John   Blanchvillestown   Blanchvilleskill   Kilkenny   1833
Sanphy   John   Blanchvillestown   Blanchvilleskill   Kilkenny   1833
Sanphy   John   Blanchvillestown   Blanchvilleskill   Kilkenny   1833
Sanphy   James   Ballyreddin and Bennetsbridge   Treadingstown   Kilkenny   1828
Sanphy   James   Bishopslough   Tullowheron    Kilkenny   
Sanphy   Richard   Bishopslough   Tullowheron    Kilkenny   
Sanphy   Richard   Ballyreddin   Tullowheron    Kilkenny   
Sanphy   James   Ballyreddin   Tullowheron    Kilkenny   
Sanphy   James   Ballyreddin   Tullowheron    Kilkenny   
Sanphy   Richard   Ballyreddin   Tullowheron    Kilkenny

I found none in the 1796 flax growers list on ancestry.

Griffiths on ancestry has: [first name occupier, second name lessor]   
Michael Sanphy Kilkenny, St. Johns, Gardens/Maudlin Street   
James Sanphy Michael Phelan   Dunbell, Big, Dunbell, Kilkenny   
Michael Sanphy Hannah Brennan   Gardens, St John, Kilkenny   
Richard Sanphy Representatives Richard Shea Esquire   Ballyredding, N, Treadingstown, Kilkenny   
Richard Sanphy Representatives Richard Shea Esquire   Bennetts-bridge, Treadingstown, Kilkenny   
Richard Sanphy Richard Shea Esquire   Bishopslough, W, Tullaherin, Kilkenny   
Anastasia Sanfey Michael Sanfey   Ballynacarrig, Kilpatrick, Wexford   
Michael Sanfey Frederick Solly Flood   Ballynacarrig, Kilpatrick, Wexford   
Mary Bent Michael Sanfey   Ballynacarrig, Kilpatrick, Wexford   
John Kinsella Michael Sanfey   Ballynacarrig, Kilpatrick, Wexford   
Unoccupied Michael Sanfey   Ballynacarrig, Kilpatrick, Wexford

Quite a few births/baptisms on ancestry in Thomastown, Co Kilkenny in the 1860s.

Josey

Thanks Josey, yes I've seen these before. My problem is I can't seem to connect my Sanphys in Wexford to these Sanphys in Kilkenny. What I'm looking for, essentially, is a record of either the baptism or marriage of Frank Sanphy, or records of the baptisms of their early children. Thank you though. :)

Offline dathai

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Re: Please help me break my long-standing Sanfey/Sanphy brick wall!
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 13 August 14 15:00 BST (UK) »
Also a Francis Sanfey age 2 buried Glasnevin in 1909 with John Dillon as part of address.

Offline 777777

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Re: Please help me break my long-standing Sanfey/Sanphy brick wall!
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 13 August 14 15:01 BST (UK) »
Also a Francis Sanfey age 2 buried Glasnevin in 1909 with John Dillon as part of address.

Yes, he's a grandson as well. However I already have plenty of information on Frank and Ellen's children and subsequent generations - what I'm looking for is where Frank came from.

Offline Pinkfoot2

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Re: Please help me break my long-standing Sanfey/Sanphy brick wall!
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 25 July 17 13:48 BST (UK) »
Have you any information on "the other" Frank Sanfey and Bridget Feehan of Oylegate. This Frank lived from c.1834 to 1895. Children: Ellen Edwards b 1859; Patrick 1864; John 1866; Mary Anne 1872; Anne 1876; Alice 1880; James 1883.