1861 Lookup please : SIMMONDS in or around Bethnal Green

[Ministeph]

Is this them in 1861?
Class: RG 9; Piece: 765; Folio: 40; Page: 2
New Street, Staines, Middlesex

Simmonds, Thomas  Head  M  49  Labourer  b Wharfield, Berkshire
Simmonds, Mary Ann  Wife  F  35 <no place of birth>
Simmonds, Thomas  Son  M  14  Scholar  b Staines
Simmonds, John  Son  M  12  Scholar  b Staines
Simmonds, William  Son  M  10  Scholar  b Staines
Simmonds, James  Son  M  8  Scholar  b Staines
Simmonds, Henry  Son  M  6  Scholar  b Staines
Simmonds, Mary Ann  Daughter  F  4  Scholar  b Staines

You stated that the family were at 69 Cable Street in 1871?
And that is the family I have typed out for you?!

No sorry, ages and place of birth don't match. 
The Thomas (Head) I'm looking for in 1861 must have been about 25 in 1861 with wife Mary Ann 30 and 2 children Mary Ann 4 and Thomas Jonathan 1...

[lizdb]

1861 has been found now on your duplicate post.
Trying to get the info on to here.

 No Thomas there though.
Are you sure your Thomas belongs to this family?

[Ministeph]

I think we have lots of different Thomas Simmondss here.


This is going to take a bit of sorting out.
First - where did you find that "your" Thomas (bn 1860ish) has the middle name Jonathan?

I think I found this on one of the further censuses (1881 maybe)

[ciderdrinker]

Hi there
I can't find them in 1871 but I can in 1861.  266/64/38
212 Brick Lane Whitechapel
Thomas Simmons 23 Packing case maker Spitelfields
Mary 29 wife Millner Bethnal Green
Mary Ann 3 Spitelfileds
John Gilkson   boarder 12 Whitechapel

Baptism for Mary Ann 9.12.1858 St Judes Whitechapel packing case maker 11 Osbourne st born 24.10.1857.
Will go back and look for Thomas Johnathon Junior
ps Thomas Johnathon Simmons buried at Hackney Non-conf  Victoria Park Cemetery age 7mths
6.3.1861 from Bethnal Green

Ciderdrinker

[Ministeph]

Could this not be the right Thomas then? I have a son Thomas aged 10 on 1871 census in Cable Street 

[Ministeph]

Hi there
I can't find them in 1871 but I can in 1861.  266/64/38
212 Brick Lane Whitechapel
Thomas Simmons 23 Packing case maker Spitelfields
Mary 29 wife Millner Bethnal Green
Mary Ann 3 Spitelfileds
John Gilkson   boarder 12 Whitechapel

Baptism for Mary Ann 9.12.1858 St Judes Whitechapel packing case maker 11 Osbourne st born 24.10.1857.
Will go back and look for Thomas Johnathon Junior
ps Thomas Johnathon Simmons buried at Hackney Non-conf  Victoria Park Cemetery age 7mths
6.3.1861 from Bethnal Green

Ciderdrinker

I think you have found the right household since "Gillkson" is Mary Ann's maiden name so John Gilkson, noted "boarder" could be one of her relatives

[ciderdrinker]

Good Morning
I did notice that her maiden name was Gilkson.
Have you considered that the John Gilkson age 12 boarder from Bethnal Green in 1861 could be the John Simmonds age 22 labourer born Whitechapel in 1871 ?
Mary might be telling the truth when she says John is her son but that he was born when she was 18 and single and would therefore be named Gilkson.By 1871 when she not Thomas is filling in the form or answering the Enumerator's question it's easy for her to include him as her son and his surname to be taken for Simmonds.
Just a thought.
Ciderdrinker

[Ministeph]

Good Morning
I did notice that her maiden name was Gilkson.
Have you considered that the John Gilkson age 12 boarder from Bethnal Green in 1861 could be the John Simmonds age 22 labourer born Whitechapel in 1871 ?
Mary might be telling the truth when she says John is her son but that he was born when she was 18 and single and would therefore be named Gilkson.By 1871 when she not Thomas is filling in the form or answering the Enumerator's question it's easy for her to include him as her son and his surname to be taken for Simmonds.
Just a thought.
Ciderdrinker

No Ciderdrinker, I must say I hadn't thought of this but indeed, it's a possibility that can't be ruled out ! Thanks for pointing this out, I had thought of a relative but not necessarily Mary Ann's son !

I'm already so confused later on with the Walker children being once listed with their father and then as Mary Ann's children... :/