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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cornwall Lookup Requests => Cornwall => England => Cornwall Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Corny on Tuesday 28 February 06 04:10 GMT (UK)
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Modified Feb. 28 2006
I am seeking emigration records for
Nathaniel Hocking b. 1856 St Stephens, Cornwall
He emigrated from Cornwall to the US some time
before his US marriage in 1883 at age 27 in Michigan
He is found living with his folks and siblings in Cornwall
Census 1861
Census 1871
But in Census 1881 (at age 25) he is missing from the family.
I have a US marriage record that puts him in Michigan in 1983,
so it seems he left Cornwall sometimes between
1871 and 1883.
His family in Cornwall (as found in 1861 census)
Father: William Hocking age 27 b. St Enoder
Mother: Jane age 26 b. St. Mewan
siblings (including Nathaniel)
John age 5 b. St Stephens
Nathaniel age 4 b. St Stephens
William age 2 b. St Stephens
Kate age 0 b. St Stephens
In addition to birth info about Nathaniel,
I am hoping to locate a marriage record for
William Hocking of St. Enoder
and Jane of St. Mewan
in about 1855.
[The incredible researcher Tati resolved this last request:
Nathaniel's mom = Jane Howard Trevena]
Thank you for any help in my search!
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Hi, here's the 1871 census with a few more kids..
1871 census
St Stephens - District 10 - Sch. 065
William HOCKING Head 36 Carpenter St Enoder
Jane " " Wife 38 St Ewe
John " " Son 15 St Ewe
Nathaniel " " Son 14
Kate " " Dau 10
Edward " " Son 8
Tom " " Son 6
Harry " " Son 4
jane Ann " " Dau 2
Fred " " Son 5 months
All born St. Stephens unless stated otherwise
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Hi Corny,
Welcome to rootschat 8)
I can see the following birth:
December quarter 1856
Nathaniel Hocking
St Austell Registration District
Volume 5c page 167
Any good?
Tanja :)
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Dear Gougy,
Thank you for the 1871 Census records
for Nathaniel Hocking and family!
I was not able to access this family in the 1871
Census using the engines I have access to, so was
thrilled to get your message!
It was so kind of you to look up my family member!
This has been a wonderful evening for
info as after reading your message, I located an 1841 census
with Nathaniel's father William as a boy aged 7, in St. Enoder,
with his parents John Hocking (age 30, stone cutter) and
mother Catherine, plus siblings Elizabeth (11),
Nathaniel [my Nathaniel's uncle] (9), Phillipa (5),
Catherine (2), Amy (2m).
What a difference a day makes!
Thank you again,
Corny
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I can see them in 1851 too (mother is suddenly named Christian!), with 4 under age 10. Would you like the details?
HO107/1905 610 31
Tanja :)
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Tanja,
Thank you so much for the info!
The date (1856) and name (Nathaniel Hocking) are right on,
although the district of Nathaniel's birth shown
in the 1861 and 71 census is St. Stephens.
Is there a St. Austell district within St. Stephens?
I am new at navigating UK records, and need to gain
familiarity with the record system and geography
of Cornwall as well!
How would I go about ordering birth records for the document
you speak of? I feel sure it would yeild a maiden name for
the mother, who is listed as Ann in the 1861 Census, but as
Jane in the 1871 and 1881 Census. There is a daughter called Jane Ann, so I think that is likely the mom's name, too, as her
district of birth and age remains the same in the different Census data, so surely same person!
Thank you again for your help, and I await any info you might
have about how I can order the records you spoke of!
Friendly Regards,
Corny
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I'm not familiar with Cornwall geography but Genuki tells me this:
St. Austell registration district
Created 1st July 1837.
Sub-districts : Fowey; Grampound; Mevagissey; St. Austell.
GRO volumes : IX (1837-51); 5c (1852-1930).
Creed, Fowey, Gorran, Grampound, Mevagissey, Roche, St. Austell, St. Blazey, St. Dennis, St. Ewe, St. Mewan, St. Michael Carhays, St. Sampson, St. Stephen in Brannel, Tywardreath.
So all we need is find out if St Stephen in Brannel is the same as St Stephens :P
(Edit: problem solved)
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... as for certs, you can order them online at the GRO:
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
Tanja :)
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I can see them in 1851 too (mother is suddenly named Christian!), with 4 under age 10. Would you like the details?
HO107/1905 610 31
Tanja :)
Hi Again Tanja,
As Nathaniel wasn't born until 1856,
I assume you're talking about the1851 census for
the family of Nathaniel's father William,
including Williams father John, the stone cutter?
(as found in the 1841 census)
I would LOVE more info on these folks!
Thank you again!
Corny
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Right, I was talking about John and his wife.
1851
HO107/1905 610 31
St Enoder, Cornwall
address: 'Hobs'
John Hocking, head, 43, Stone Cutter, b. Ladock
Christian, wife, 43, b. Newlyn
William, son, 16, b. St Enoder
Catherine, dau, 12, scholar, b. do.
Emma, dau, 9, scholar, b. do.
John, son, 7, scholar, b. do.
Selina, dau, 4, b. do.
Edward, son, 1, b. do.
Tanja :)
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Right, I was talking about John and his wife.
1851
HO107/1905 610 31
St Enoder, Cornwall
address: 'Hobs'
John Hocking, head, 43, Stone Cutter, b. Ladock
Christian, wife, 43, b. Newlyn
William, son, 16, b. St Enoder
Catherine, dau, 12, scholar, b. do.
Emma, dau, 9, scholar, b. do.
John, son, 7, scholar, b. do.
Selina, dau, 4, b. do.
Edward, son, 1, b. do.
Tanja :)
Tanja,
This is so odd!
There is too much perfectly right for
it to just be a coincidence, yet something
is amok.
They live in the right place (St Enoder) and John is still a
stone cutter, but he and his wife, who are both 30 in 1841
have aged 13 years in only ten years
(they are both now listed as 43). And as you said, the wife
has changed from Catherine to Christian, but she is still the
same age as her husband.
William, who was 7 in 1841 is still about the
right age at 16. Also Catherine (age 2 in 1841) is the right age
in '51 at 12. Little Philippa (5) and Amy (2m) are missing,
but they could have died. How sad!!!
The wife could be the same or not. Now I need to find
a birth certificate for William Hocking, son of John.
I love the way your new census info about '51 has John's
place of birth! Yay! And if Catherine and Christian are one in
the same, her birthplace is also valid!
Thank you!!! Thank you!!!
Corney
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Ages often vary through census returns anyway but you may not know that they were rounded (up or down? I can never remember!) on the 1841 census so this seems to fit very well indeed.
Tanja :)
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Wonder if this is them in 1861?
St Enoder, Cornwall
RG9/1544 24 9
'Hobs'
Kitty Hocking, head, wid, 51, Farmer of 12 acres empl 1 man, b. Newlyn
Selina, dau, 14, Daughter at home, b. St Enoder
Edward, son, 11, scholar, b. do.
Tanja :)
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My brain is back! St Austell seems the right registration district. I see the place Nathaniel is in 1871 is actually St Stephens in Brannel :D :D
Tanja :)
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Wonder if this is them in 1861?
St Enoder, Cornwall
RG9/1544 24 9
'Hobs'
Kitty Hocking, head, wid, 51, Farmer of 12 acres empl 1 man, b. Newlyn
Selina, dau, 14, Daughter at home, b. St Enoder
Edward, son, 11, scholar, b. do.
Tanja :)
Tanja,
YES! It has to be them because the location is right along with
Selina and Edward and the widow Hocking all at the right ages. Plus
Kitty's birth place!
Selina isn't that common of a name, is it? It must be them!
Yippeee!!!! This is just amazing! Thank you!!!
Corny
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Have you already had a look at www.familysearch.org ?
Have found very interesting things there, such as 8)
Marriage 14 JAN 1855 Saint Stephen In Brannel, Cornwall
WILLIAM HOCKING (Father JOHN HOCKING)
Spouse JANE HOWARD TREVENA
Husband Age at Marriage: 20
Wife Age at Marriage: 21
(Extracted marriage record)
Tanja :)
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There's also an extracted marriage for John and Kitty, but I don't want to spoil the fun :P - Come back to me if you can't find it.
I don't know how familiar you are with familysearch but there are 2 sorts of records on there: extracted records and submitted records. Those who are submitted by LDS members (and I see there are some for your family) are sometimes less reliable than the extracted records in as far as you don't know how serious the searcher who has submitted the record is.
The extracted records are copies from the church registers.
Tanja :)
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My brain is back! St Austell seems the right registration district. I see the place Nathaniel is in 1871 is actually St Stephens in Brannel :D :D
Tanja :)
Tanja,
You are AMAZING!!!!! Holey Schnikees!!!
YOU FOUND THE MAIDEN NAME OF NATHANIEL'S MOM!!!!!
Woo hoo!!!!! I had originally been looking for "Ann,"
who came from an incorrect transcription of the 1861 census from a website called 1837.com. Later this evening I found another
trascript of the census at FreeCEN, which listed her
(in the same census) as Jane.
Now that I look at the photo copy I have of the 1861 census,
it does look more like Jane than Ann, and I note now that they
also wrongly transcribed Kate as "Kali."
I hadn't thought to go back and recheck marriage records
between Jane and William, as I was busy chasing John the
stonecutter and getting wonderful updates from you!
This is just wonderful!
I feel like I've been in a time machine!!!
My brain is growing foggy, as it's past 2am here, but I thank you most sincerely
for a most exciting ride through history!
I am off to sleep, but will be dreaming of Cornwall and
all these new ancestors!
Best Regards and Enormous Thanks!
Corny
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There's also an extracted marriage for John and Kitty, but I don't want to spoil the fun :P - Come back to me if you can't find it.
I don't know how familiar you are with familysearch but there are 2 sorts of records on there: extracted records and submitted records. Those who are submitted by LDS members (and I see there are some for your family) are sometimes less reliable than the extracted records in as far as you don't know how serious the searcher who has submitted the record is.
The extracted records are copies from the church registers.
Tanja :)
Tanja,
I posted my last message before reading your last message.
There is NO WAY I could have got to sleep without doing
that search:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JN HOCKING
Marriages:
Spouse: KITTY COURTIS Family
Marriage:
08 AUG 1829 Ladock, Cornwall, England
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Two maiden names in one night. I am blown away.
I love that this woman is Kitty on her marriage
certificate and Kitty as an old woman, because I
know it's the same person (women died a lot in those
days because they kept pumping out babies ).
Still, it is odd that she is Kitty is on the marriage certificate and
on only the last census, yet it is Catherine and Christian
elsewhere. Yet the consistency of the children's names,
John's stone cutting and birthplace, etc., make me feel certain
this is my ancestor.
I appreciate the info about extracted, and how it differs from
submitted info. And I so appreciate all your help.
That said, it is 3am and I need to limp off to bed.
Thank you again for the amazing data!
Warm Regards,
Corny
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Hi Corny,
Between tidying up, I have just been playing about in St Enoder, so thought I would revive this oldie - hope it brings you back, I see you have not been about in a while. ;)
I see some things I think will interest you. There are two couples - John and Kitty and William and Elizabeth involved. On one day see a heap of baptisms listed 1 to John and Kitty and 4 to William and Elizabeth. I see William and Elizabeth are living at Pleasant Cottage in 1841 and in 1851 are next door to John at Hobbs. William is born Ladock so presume they are brothers. Some of these were hard to spot so hope I haven't missed any - some look like HOCKIN or even HOCKIA - one even looked something more like ARCKIC ;)
Anyway here are my findings :)
Baptism's to John and Kitty at St Enoder
William 25 May 1834 of Hobbs Tenement father Stone Cutter
Philippa 2 May 1836 of Hobbs Tenement father Stone Cutter
Emma 19 Apr 1840 of Hobbs father Stone Cutter
Catherine 14 Sep 1845 of Pleasant Cottage father Stone Mason
Elizabeth Ann 6 Jul 1848 of Pleasant Cottage. Father Stone Cutter
Baptisms to William and Elizabeth at St Enoder
Susan 11 Mar 1840 of Pleasant Cottage father Stone Cutter
Sophia 14 Sep 1845 of Pleasant Cottage father Stone Mason
Francis 14 Sep 1845 of Pleasant Cottage father Stone Mason
Susan 14 Sep 1845 of Pleasant Cottage father Stone Mason
Amy 14 Sep 1845 of Pleasant Cottage father Stone Mason
Looks like they were between Church of England and Wesleyan Methodists as there were some Wesleyan baptisms also
St Columb Wesleyan Baptisms
22 Dec 1843 John HOCKING son of John and Kitty of St Enoder was baptised aged 5 weeks 4 days
20 Nov 1846 Selina HOCKING dau of John and Kitty of Queens was baptised aged 7 weeks
1 Jun 1849 Edward HOCKING son of John and Kitty of St Enoder was baptised (Born 18 April 1849)
and some to William and Elizabeth as well
27 Sep 1844 Emma HOCKING Dau of William and Elizabeth of St Enoder was baptised aged 4 Months
29 Jun 1849 William HOCKING son of William and Elizabeth of St Enoder was baptised (born 16 May 1849)
Burials St Enoder
Jane HOCKIN aged 13 of Pleasant Cottage 12 Nov 1848 (one of Williams)
John HOCKIN aged 14 0f Hobbs Tenement 1 Apr 1857 (one of Johns)
John HOCKING aged 52 of Pleasant Cottage 2 Feb 1860
Kitty HOCKING aged 76 of Ro-tu in St Enoder 22 Feb 1881
Couldn't find Amy - Baptism or Burial - Philippa didn't die she is a servant in 1851
HO107/1905 Folio 312 Page 6
St Columb Major
BASSETT John Cole Head 30 Mar b St Enoder Annuitant
BASSETT Amy Wife 31 Mar b St Issey
BASSETT John Cole 1 b St Columb
HOCKING Philippa Servant 14 b St Enoder House Servant
Merry Xmas ;D ;D ;D Cheers Kris :)
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Parish Ladock
Name: Nathaniel HOCKING
Date 29th Jan 1832
Father John HOCKING: Mother Kitty
Brian
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For the Record Books
1841 Census:
John Hocking: age 39: Stone Cutter.
Catherine Hocking: age 30.
Elizabeth Hocking: age 11.
Nathaniel Hocking: age 9.
William Hocking: age 7.
Philippa Hocking: age 5.
Catherine Hocking: age 2.
Amy Hocking: age 2 months.
Address:
Hobbs, St Enoder,
---------------------------------------------------------
William Hocking: age 65: Mason.
Philippa Hocking: age 70,
Lucinda ? Bant: age 10.
Address:
Menna Downs, Ladock.
Brian
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Marriage
Parish Mawnan
Husband: William HOCKING
Wife: Philippa ROBERTS
Date 13 Jun 1797
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Marriage
Parish Mawnan
Husband: William HOCKING
Wife: Philippa ROBERTS
Date 13 Jun 1797
Dear Borneo,
If I am reading you correctly, you are adding a new set of Grandparents
to my line? The wedding date makes this couple the appropriate age
to be the parents of my gggg-grandfather John Hocking, stone cutter.
The names William and Phillipa work with the names of the children and
grandchildren of the prospective fit, and the occupation of William stone cutter
certainly fits too. Also the town! What a way to start the new year!
Thank you kindly, Borneo! What an amazing gift! It was so kind
of you to do the reserach! Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!
Sincerely,
Corney
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Hi Corny,
Between tidying up, I have just been playing about in St Enoder, so thought I would revive this oldie - hope it brings you back, I see you have not been about in a while. ;)
I see some things I think will interest you. There are two couples - John and Kitty and William and Elizabeth involved. On one day see a heap of baptisms listed 1 to John and Kitty and 4 to William and Elizabeth. I see William and Elizabeth are living at Pleasant Cottage in 1841 and in 1851 are next door to John at Hobbs. William is born Ladock so presume they are brothers. Some of these were hard to spot so hope I haven't missed any - some look like HOCKIN or even HOCKIA - one even looked something more like ARCKIC ;)
Merry Xmas ;D ;D ;D Cheers Kris :)
Dear Kris,
Thank you so much for your help. I see you did much work on my behalf
and I so appreciate it!
I agree, William and John have got to be brothers, and according to Borneo's
work (which built further upon your findings) There seems to have been
a stone cutter named William who married a woman named Phillipa in 1790,
who lived in Laddock and had children and grandchildren named after themselves.
It's just all so amazing.
With the help of a groundskeeper at St. Enoder, I have a picture of the gravestone of
three of the folks you mention --
William & Kitty Hocking (my gggg-grandparents) and
their young son who dies at 14. These are all buried at St. Endoder.
Here it is
http://thechars.smugmug.com/photos/61832864-L.jpg
Note it says of "Retue" rather than ro-to. The groundskeeper
at St. Enoder said there is no record of that spelling anywhere.
He said many of these little hamlets and were plowed down in
then name of mineral extraction, so it would be futile to go there
and look for them. Still it would be fun to try if I can ever save
that kind of money.
Thank you again, so much, for your time and work. Especiall
considering it was done during the holidays!
Wow! Thank you!
Friendly Regards,
Bonnie Char ( Corney)
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Hi Bonnie,
Glad to have helped. How very lovely of the groundskeeper to send you the photo. ;D It really is in good order and very legible isn't it for the last burial to have been 125 years ago. What a bonus to have it without having to journey to Cornwall to get it. Terribly kind of the gentleman. I have had some wonderful help from the St Enoder Churchwarder who seeked me out when a Bell was lowered that he thought would be of interest to me.
http://saint-enoder-bells.blogspot.com/
What a discovery for anyone connected with the persons named on these bells. Wouldn't it would be lovely to see these bells again hanging in their rightful place?
In the course of our later discussions he also sent me a lovely photo of a plaque which hangs inside the church. A very helpful man. :) I would love to be in Cornwall and be able to see these things myself but when that is not possible a good clear photo is great. ;)
With the parish records the rector just spells things how he hears them a lot of the time. The spelling in that entry was very clearly Ro-tu. I see places spelled different ways in entries all the time. It is lovely that you have the correct spelling of the hamlet even if it does not exist any more..
Glad you have a good start for the new year. New information is always wonderful. All the best with your research in 2007. If you have any further queries please don't hesitate to ask.
Cheers Kris :)
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Happy New Year Bonnie,
Brian
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There's also an extracted marriage for John and Kitty, but I don't want to spoil the fun :P - Come back to me if you can't find it.
I don't know how familiar you are with familysearch but there are 2 sorts of records on there: extracted records and submitted records. Those who are submitted by LDS members (and I see there are some for your family) are sometimes less reliable than the extracted records in as far as you don't know how serious the searcher who has submitted the record is.
The extracted records are copies from the church registers.
Tanja :)
Tanja,
I posted my last message before reading your last message.
There is NO WAY I could have got to sleep without doing
that search:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JN HOCKING
Marriages:
Spouse: KITTY COURTIS Family
Marriage:
08 AUG 1829 Ladock, Cornwall, England
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Two maiden names in one night. I am blown away.
I love that this woman is Kitty on her marriage
certificate and Kitty as an old woman, because I
know it's the same person (women died a lot in those
days because they kept pumping out babies ).
Still, it is odd that she is Kitty is on the marriage certificate and
on only the last census, yet it is Catherine and Christian
elsewhere. Yet the consistency of the children's names,
John's stone cutting and birthplace, etc., make me feel certain
this is my ancestor.
I appreciate the info about extracted, and how it differs from
submitted info. And I so appreciate all your help.
That said, it is 3am and I need to limp off to bed.
Thank you again for the amazing data!
Warm Regards,
Corny
Hi Corny. Just doing some research on my Hocking ancestors when I came across your correspondence re. John and Kitty Hocking in 2006. I don't know if you are still researching but just wanted to let you know that I also am a descendent of Kitty and John Hocking. They are my great great great great grandparents. Their daughter Catherine married Richard James in St Enoder. She is buried in St Stephen in Brannel (known as St Stephens) churchyard which is the parish next to St Enoder. I was in Cornwall last week on a walking trip and I visited the churchyard. Catherine and Richard had a son Albert John Hocking James, my great grandfather and his son Walter Richard James was my grandfather and his son Eric Richard James was my Dad. Small world isn't it. I guess that makes us some sort of cousin. I knew that some of the Hockings emigrated but I'm from the branch that stayed in Cornwall.
Regards.
Karen
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Hi,
I am descended from the William and Elizabeth mentioned in this post. If I am not then I have wasted quite a few years of hard work. I have always assumed that John and William were brothers too. William and Elizabeth migrated to South Australia in 1855 aboard the Victoria Regia. The passenger list has: William 48, mason, St Enoder Cornwall, Elizabeth 45, Sophia 16 servant, Susan 14 servant, Francis 13 (my line), Amy 10, Richard 8, William 6, James 2.
My distant cousins, also descended from this couple, have a Philippa Hicks as William's mother but that marriage date doesn't work. It would mean the eldest daughter, Philippa, is illegitimate but there is no indicate that she was. I think that Philippa Robarts is a more likely candidate too.
kkenn15