Who was Mary Murphy?

[Janette]

It may be worth getting the birth printout for Letita's youngest son

1889/11555   Powley    Edward Milton    Letitia   William

I wonder if his name should be Minton after his uncle

Cheers Janette

[kiwihalfpint]

There is an infant death at Waikumete for a Milton E Powley.   Could be the above wee chap Janette mentions.

 POWLEY, MILTON E
 Plot :                                  ROMAN CATHOLIC DIVISION A Row 4, Plot 42
 Interment Type:              Burial
 Title:                                  Baby
 Surname :                        POWLEY
 Given Names:                 MILTON E
 Age :                                  N/A
 Gender :                            N/A
 Occupation:                     INFANT
 Date Of Death :                16-Feb-1890
 Date Of Cremation :       N/A
 Date Of Burial :                17-Feb-1890 
 Funeral Director :           UNKNOWN
 Head Stone Details :      N/A


http://www.rootschat.com/links/0bpz/

Cheers
KHP

[odysseyov]

Thanks for the tip, Janette.   I had the same thought, especially as Letitia died the same year and William apparently only 4 years later.   But it would only be helpful if the grandparents were shown on the death register and I don't think they are.   I will try to chase up some connection between William Pawley and Thomas Minton.

[ShaunJ]

There's a slightly earlier Letitia Murphy marriage - in 1867 to John Patrick Thomas. Per
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/

Another index has the groom's name as James Patrick Thomas

[Beg Clonrode...]

Hello...

No actual help sorry, just some thoughts.

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It may be worth getting the birth printout for Letitia's youngest son

Thanks for the tip Janette but it would only be helpful if the grandparents were shown on the death register

I think the reasoning behind Janette's suggestion is that the 1889 birth certificate for Letitia's youngest son should hopefully mention Letitia's birthplace. In an earlier thread you mention that Mary MURPHY was born in Melbourne so if Letitia was also born in Melbourne it's a link, albeit fairly tenuous. You could then purchase Letitia's NZ death certificate which hopefully mentions her parents. Then find the parents (hopefully in Melbourne c.1850) and fingers crossed they have a daughter Mary/Martha born 1851-ish

I know what you're thinking :-) It would be more direct (and cheaper) to just purchase Letitia's 1890 death certificate but her son's 1889 birth certificate is more likely to have an accurate birthplace for Letitia. Presumably she would have been the informant.

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Would the marriage certificates [for Mary and Letitia] have any more details

Before purchasing marriage certificates it might pay to ask for a kind Rootschatter to do ITM lookups. One for Mary (1867) and two for Letitia (1867 and 1868). No guarantee they'll be of any help but you never know.

---

Mary married my great grandpa, Thomas Minton, on 6th May 1867 at Brighton (south of Dunedin)

As Lucy reasoned in a previous thread, it's more likely to be the long-gone gold-mining town of Brighton a.k.a Tiromoana on the West Coast of the South Island, not the Brighton south of Dunedn.

In the late 1860's Brighton/Tiromoana was home to five thousand feverish gold miners, one of which was presumably your Thomas MINTON, and fifty-three pubs, one of which was presumably the Empire.

Regards
Beg

[odysseyov]

How very grateful I am to all you super RootsChatterers for you help, ideas and information.   We think we may have found the right Mary - especial thanks to ShaunJ - because John Patrick Thomas and Letitia Murphy were witnesses to Mary's marriage.   We aren't sure where Mary was born (althouhgh gma's birth cert suggests Melbourne) - only that 2 of her 6 children were born in Melbourne and another 2 in Sydney - the first two were born in/near Greymouth which lends weight to your suggestion, Beg.   However, we do know Thomas was a celloist by choice and a painter/paperhanger by necessity;   there are records of his having played in classical orchestras in various venues in Victoria (and Sydney) as well as participating in a painting business with his brothers in Ballarat (Also a gold town - but perhaps gold towns were where the population and business opportunities existed)   In Oct 1862, Thomas performed at the "Princess Theatre" in Dunedin with members of Madame Caradini's "English Opera Troupe."   When the troupe moved on in Dec 1862, Thomas stayed behind and performed as a casual musician at the Theatre.   In mid 1865 he was still advertising music tuition in string and brass instruments in Dunedin.   Then in May of 1867, after one month in Brighton, (which could well be Toromoana, as you say, Beg, since their first child was born April 1868 near Greymouth) he married Mary, who had been at whatever Brighton it was for 6 months.   I checked papers past for Empire Hotel and the Bruce papers mentioned one.   I'll try again for the west cost.   Since we've been following the wrong Mary (Powley instead of Thomas) we'll now have to try to find their offspring and where they settled and if there is any connection with Margarita Newberry.   Letitia seems to have been the elder (if she and Mary were sisters) since there was permission to marry for Mary but not Letitia, and Letitia was acceptable as a witness (was there an age limit at the time?)   But how was it possible for Margarita Newberry to give permission - unless she was Mary's mother?   Or Mary was indentured to her?   Or both Mary and Letitia were convicts?  We seem to find more questions than answers - despite all your wonderful help, for which heartfelt thanks!!! 

[Janette]

2 children

1868/37171   Thomas    Letitia /   Letitia/   John Patrick
1871/25658   Thomas    Charles Grey /   Letitia   /John Patrick

Cheers Janette

[AMBLY]

Apparently there is a family tree for a Letitia Murphy Powell on ancestry.c

There is a tree on A* with the other - your  - Letitia MURPHY, Mrs James Patrick THOMAS.
And a photograph of her, in her later years. Also a photo of her husband. Married Charlestown NZ in 1867.  Daughter born in Melbourne in 1873, married in NZ in 1904, living in NSW 1943.

Note, this tree has her husband as James, not John.

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

The daughter, Lucy Maud THOMAS, Mrs BAKER, died in 1950, NSW:
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html
Ref: 25168/1950  Lucy Maud BAKER
Father: John Patrick
Mother: Letitia
Reg: SYDNEY

Cheers
AMBLY