1861 Lookup please : SIMMONDS in or around Bethnal Green

[Ministeph]

Please, may I request your help...

Could someone please try to find the Simmonds family in or around Bethnal Green in 1861 ?

Thomas Simmonds aged 25, born Mile End New Town
Mary Ann, wife, 30, born in Bethnal Green
Mary Ann, daughter, 4
Thomas Jonathan, son, 1

The couple had got married in Bethnal Green in 1857. In 1871, they were living at 69 Cable Street, St George in the East

Their address in 1861 and any other information about them (other children etc) would be very much appreciated.

THANK YOU !!

[lizdb]

Mary Ann was christened 9th Dec 1859, her dob given as 24 Oct 1857
This was at St Jude, Whitechapel
Parents Thomas Jonathan and Mary Ann Simmonds
He a packing case maker
Their address then was 11 Osborne Street

Cant see a chr for the son Thomas.

But Dad, Thomas Jonathan, was chr in 1837 Westminster - have you got the details? Parents also Thomas Jonathan and Mary Ann, just to confuse you with the generations!!

Off to look again for 1861 . .

[lizdb]

Have you got the ref for 1871? Not spotting them there either!

[Ministeph]

Have you got the ref for 1871? Not spotting them there either!

No sorry, I don't have a reference but in 1871, I guess Thomas is dead, his wife Mary Ann is head with numerous children. And she is noted not as Mary Ann but just "Mary Simmonds", 69 cable Street, with a boarder called Thomas Walker (and later on it gets confusing there again, lol)

Thank you very much for the christening and DOB for Mary Ann, I didn't have that !

[Ministeph]

But Dad, Thomas Jonathan, was chr in 1837 Westminster - have you got the details? Parents also Thomas Jonathan and Mary Ann, just to confuse you with the generations!!

Off to look again for 1861 . .

No I don't have the details. I thought dad was just Thomas, as stated on his marriage certificate. Thanks for pointing that out !

[KGarrad]

1871 census: Class: RG10; Piece: 529; Folio: 51; Page: 5
69 Cable Street, Tower Hamlets

Simmonds, Mary  Head  Married  F  40  b Spitalfields
Simmonds, John  Son  M  22  Labourer  b Whitechapel
Simmonds, Mary Ann  Daughter  F  14  Seamstress  b Spitalfields
Simmonds, Thomas  Son  M  10  Scholar  b Whitechapel
Simmonds, Joseph  Son  M  8  Scholar  b St George in the East
Simmonds, William  Son  M  4  Scholar  b St George in the East
Simmonds, Henry  Son  M  2  b St George in the East

[Ministeph]

1871 census: Class: RG10; Piece: 529; Folio: 51; Page: 5
69 Cable Street, Tower Hamlets

Simmonds, Mary  Head  Married  F  40  b Spitalfields
Simmonds, John  Son  M  22  Labourer  b Whitechapel
Simmonds, Mary Ann  Daughter  F  14  Seamstress  b Spitalfields
Simmonds, Thomas  Son  M  10  Scholar  b Whitechapel
Simmonds, Joseph  Son  M  8  Scholar  b St George in the East
Simmonds, William  Son  M  4  Scholar  b St George in the East
Simmonds, Henry  Son  M  2  b St George in the East

Thank you ! But if the father of these children is Thomas Jonathan, he would have had his first son John at the age of 13 ??!!! OR is this John not his son but his brother since there was a John Simmonds that age listed as his brother in  1851 (NB : These Thomas and Mary Ann (husband and wife) are MY Thomas Simmonds' parents, notice their age ! )

1851 - 12 Pelham Street, St Dunstan Stepney

Thomas SIMMONDS head mar 47 trunk maker b.City of London
Mary Ann wife 37 b.Bethnal Green
Thomas son 14 box maker b.Mile End New Town
Sarah dau 12 b.Mile End New Town
Esther dau 9 b.Mile End New Town
Ann dau 3 b.Mile End New Town
John son 1 b.Mile End New Town

HO107/1544 folio 222 page 9

[KGarrad]

Is this them in 1861?
Class: RG 9; Piece: 765; Folio: 40; Page: 2
New Street, Staines, Middlesex

Simmonds, Thomas  Head  M  49  Labourer  b Wharfield, Berkshire
Simmonds, Mary Ann  Wife  F  35 <no place of birth>
Simmonds, Thomas  Son  M  14  Scholar  b Staines
Simmonds, John  Son  M  12  Scholar  b Staines
Simmonds, William  Son  M  10  Scholar  b Staines
Simmonds, James  Son  M  8  Scholar  b Staines
Simmonds, Henry  Son  M  6  Scholar  b Staines
Simmonds, Mary Ann  Daughter  F  4  Scholar  b Staines

You stated that the family were at 69 Cable Street in 1871?
And that is the family I have typed out for you?!

[lizdb]

I think we have lots of different Thomas Simmondss here.

The one who was married to Mary (the 1871) is unlikely to be the same one who was at home age 14 on 1851.
Unless as you say there is a second marriage involved.

This is going to take a bit of sorting out.
First - where did you find that "your" Thomas (bn 1860ish) has the middle name Jonathan?

Certainly the father of the Mary Ann whose chr I found was a Thomas Jonathan, and then there is a Thomas Jonathan chr 1825 in Westminster, who I guess is this man.