Author Topic: French Ancestor?  (Read 3882 times)

Offline troymantis

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French Ancestor?
« on: Friday 26 June 09 22:13 BST (UK) »
Can anyone help me?

My 3xG Grandfather may be of French origins.  His name was Joseph Lezart.  He married Mary Abrahams in St James Church, Liverpool on 21 August 1865.  He made his mark on the Marriage Certificate.  I cannot verify that the name that the registrar wrote down on the certificate, is in fact the correct name.

The male witness at the wedding is the brother of the bride.  The thinking is that the female witness may be somehow linked to Joseph.  Her name as it appears on the certificate is Catherine/Catharine Tomkinson, I looked at lancashirebmd thinking that she may have come to this country sometime before Joseph and married here.  I was hoping to find that her maiden name was Lezart.

There are no marriages for Tomkinson, only Tomlinson and the maiden names of the women concerned do not match Lezart.  Joseph appears to have no relations in this country.

I have no idea when he came to England, but by the time that his daughter Josephine (my 2xG Grandmother) was born, he was recorded as deceased.  There is no death in the name of Joseph Lezart in the GRO indexes.  Therefore, the incident cannot be cross referenced.

I would like to ask how do I go about finding papers related to his becoming a British citizen?  The problem lies for me, in the fact that he appears to have been illiterate and could not verify the spelling of his name.  If records do exist, how would I know that they in fact relate to my ancestor?

I may be able to check his occupation, as there is a discrepancy on some certificates.  He appears to be either a ship keeper or a shop keeper.  As a shop keeper he must be in a trade directory.  I am hoping that the Liverpool Records Office will have details.

Has anyone else experienced a problem such as this?  Where there any steps that you took to resolve such difficulties?  Please help, as I would be very grateful for some help.

Thank you ;D

troymantis
Potts, Tipping, Lezart, Mounsey, Hunter, Quinn, Marshall, Longcake, Cape

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline alpinecottage

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Re: French Ancestor?
« Reply #1 on: Friday 26 June 09 23:04 BST (UK) »
I looked on Freebmd at all Josephs who died in Lancashire between Mar 1866 and June 1867, and as you say, none have a name remotely like Lezart. 

But there is a Joseph Unknown aged 20 who died in Liverpool  during the Dec Q 1866.   :-\  Perhaps whoever registered his death had no idea whatsoever how to say or spell his name  :-\  :-\

Alternatively, he could have died elsewhere in UK or even back in France or not died atall, but just cleared off!
Perrins - Manchester and Staffs
Honan - Manchester and Ireland
Hogg - Manchester 19 cent
Anderson - Newcastle mid 19 cent
Boullen - London then Carlisle then Manchester
Comer - Manchester and Galway

Offline troymantis

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Re: French Ancestor?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 27 June 09 20:04 BST (UK) »
I know!  I thought that he had done a runner too :D

Can I just ask, as Mary's name was Abrahams is there a possibility that she was Jewish?  I understand that both her and Joseph were married in a Church of England ceremony, but I've just googled Jewish surnames and found the following site: http://www.avotaynu.com/csi/csi-home.htm 

From this site I have just found out that the name Lezart is in fact Jewish.  Is this something for me to 'work' on? Will the records office in Liverpool have papers related to this?

Thanks for any advice that you can give

troymantis

PS  Thank you Alpine for your help  :)
Potts, Tipping, Lezart, Mounsey, Hunter, Quinn, Marshall, Longcake, Cape

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline alpinecottage

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Re: French Ancestor?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 27 June 09 21:21 BST (UK) »
I don't really think he did a runner!!  -  Mary did call the baby Josephine after all.

My ancestors were Catholic, but at that time several married in C of E churches.  In the early 1800's only C of E weddings were valid, but I'm not sure when that changed.

I suggest you repost on the Lancashire board, because someone will know what holdings the L'pool Record Office have.  You could also google L'pool record office - they probably have a list online.

Good luck with this one - looks like you may need it!
Perrins - Manchester and Staffs
Honan - Manchester and Ireland
Hogg - Manchester 19 cent
Anderson - Newcastle mid 19 cent
Boullen - London then Carlisle then Manchester
Comer - Manchester and Galway


Offline troymantis

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Re: French Ancestor?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 27 June 09 23:40 BST (UK) »
alpinecottage

My mistake ;D I must have misunderstood you ;D ;D ;D

Thanks for all your help.  I will follow your advice and go on the Lancashire boards.

I agree!  I need a miracle :D

troymantis
Potts, Tipping, Lezart, Mounsey, Hunter, Quinn, Marshall, Longcake, Cape

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online jorose

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Re: French Ancestor?
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 28 June 09 13:44 BST (UK) »
Jewish people and Quakers were exempt from the CoE requirement, and once civil registration started you could marry in any church (subject to them registering with the authorities, which some small congregations might not have).  You could also marry in the office alone without a church marriage (often done for mixed-religion marriages).

Does the marriage certificate say "Married in the (Parish Church/Church of St. James) according to the rites and ceremonies of the Established Church?"
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline troymantis

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Re: French Ancestor?
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 28 June 09 17:39 BST (UK) »
Yes, it reads "Married in the Church of St James according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Established Church, by --------- or after Banns by me, W B Stewart  ??? Off ???"

I can't read those bits!

troymantis ;D

PS Thanks for your help
Potts, Tipping, Lezart, Mounsey, Hunter, Quinn, Marshall, Longcake, Cape

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline JustinL

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Re: French Ancestor?
« Reply #7 on: Monday 29 June 09 10:05 BST (UK) »
Can you tell us some more of the details from the marriage certificate please?

1. Ages of bride and groom
2. Names and occupations of fathers

Justin

Offline JustinL

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Re: French Ancestor?
« Reply #8 on: Monday 29 June 09 11:36 BST (UK) »
Have you tried a simple google search for Lezart and Liverpool?

A Steve Murdoch (is that you?) seems to have traced a Lezart family from Malta to Liverpool.

Abrahams was indeed a common enough Jewish surname. However, many families  assimilated and converted, so maybe her father (or even fg) was already Christian. Censuses records show (apparently) that she was the daughter of William and Anne Abrahams.

Where did you come across the suggestion that Lezart may be a Jewish surname? Nobody on JewishGen is researching that surname.

Justin