RootsChat.Com

Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: kiwianna on Monday 26 April 10 21:55 BST (UK)

Title: Passenger List Lady Joceyln *COMPLETED*
Post by: kiwianna on Monday 26 April 10 21:55 BST (UK)
I'm trying to solve a little family twist that's come up and am trying to find the passenger list for the lady Jocelyn sailed 1874 from London arriving NZ January 1875.

In particular I am trying to locate the arrival of a Mary Waite (possibly with children Frederick and George). I know she was in England 1771 and married Christchurch NZ September 1875 and as another family member (King or Anthony Page) came out on the lady Jocelyn i wonder if he accompanied her

Any suggestions where i should start as I can't see to find a list for this voyage

Cheers
Anna
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: gortonboy on Monday 26 April 10 22:03 BST (UK)
There were other ways of assisted passage. I add this from research on an Oxfordshire parish, which some of you may find of interest.

There was a lot of emigration, from Shipton under Wychwood and area, mostly to New Zealand and mostly as assisted passages made through the Agricultural Union which was very strong in that area. There is a book that gives a good description of this - 'The Farthest Promised Land' by Rollo Arnold published in 1981 by Victoria University Press, Wellington.. It has a whole chapter on the Wychwood area and included is the following on page 130 :-

'The last union party of the year was led by Thomas Osborne, sailing by the Lady Jocelyn on 3 November(1874). among her seventy-two Oxfordshire emigrants were at least nineteen from the Wychwood villages of Milton and Lyneham............'

In this book Rollo Arnold says that New Zealand's National Archives, in the Archives of the Immigration Department, hold almost complete files of passenger lists of the colony's assisted immigrants of the 1870s.
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: kiwianna on Monday 26 April 10 22:15 BST (UK)
As I know another relative definitely made the journey on the Lady Jocelyn I wondered if his widowed sister with children may have accompanied him here esp as they were in the same household in 1871 in England. If this is not the case then i will follow up with your suggestion and see what else I can find.

Cheers
Anna
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: newbe_nz on Monday 26 April 10 22:44 BST (UK)
Hi There,

Did the family arrive in Lyttelton from London in 1875 or some other part of NZ


Do you know who she married?

Newbe
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: newbe_nz on Monday 26 April 10 22:47 BST (UK)
From our BDM website I see Mary WAITE  married a John BOTT 1875

Reg No. 1875/2836

https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/

Newbe
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: Mackiwi on Monday 26 April 10 22:55 BST (UK)
2 articles in Papers Past for John and Mary Bott 31st march and 9 May 1877
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: kiwianna on Monday 26 April 10 22:55 BST (UK)
Yes, that's the right one...so i know she was married in NZ late 1875 and must have arrived here prior to that
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: newbe_nz on Monday 26 April 10 23:08 BST (UK)
I do not see any children born to Mary and John BOTT

Newbe
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: newbe_nz on Monday 26 April 10 23:10 BST (UK)
Here are the links to  Papers Past that talk about John and Mary BOTT

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=TS18770331.2.9.1&srpos=6&e=-------10--1----0John+and+mary+BOTT-all

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=TS18770509.2.9&srpos=5&e=-------10--1----0John+and+mary+BOTT-all

Newbe
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: Mackiwi on Monday 26 April 10 23:25 BST (UK)
Can't find a passenger list, but the Lady Jocelyn arrived in Lyttelton on 21st January 1875. Also found her arriving in 1873 although Mary Waite not on that one, there is a photo. See N Z Yesteryears
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: newbe_nz on Monday 26 April 10 23:29 BST (UK)
Christchurch Archives New Zealand has shipping passenger lists but am not able to get there myself to check at the moment.

There are also the Church index cards at Christchurch Library where the marriage may have been transcribed so that will have date of marriage and witness to the marriage.

Might be able to check that out at the library when I have some spare time

Newbe
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: newbe_nz on Monday 26 April 10 23:39 BST (UK)
I'm trying to solve a little family twist that's come up and am trying to find the passenger list for the lady Jocelyn sailed 1874 from London arriving NZ January 1875.

In particular I am trying to locate the arrival of a Mary Waite (possibly with children Frederick and George). I know she was in England 1771 and married Christchurch NZ September 1875 and as another family member (King or Anthony Page) came out on the lady Jocelyn i wonder if he accompanied her

Any suggestions where i should start as I can't see to find a list for this voyage

Cheers
Anna

Was Mary already married in the UK before she came out to NZ.
What was the surname of her children?

Do you have any other info already on this family

I see there is a probate at Welling Archives for a Mary BOTT in 1918

http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?OID=17982619

Newbe
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: kiwianna on Monday 26 April 10 23:50 BST (UK)
I know John Bott married widow Mary Waite in Christchurch in 1875. A relative showed me their sons (Horace) marriage cert which lists her as Mary Waite nee Page. This son married a Polly Bonnett daughter of Maria Page and Harry Bonnet with Maria being in the page family i am researching.

While researching the census for Marias parents I found her sister listed as Mary Waite with 2 children in 1771 living with her parents. I am trying to see if this is indeed the same Mary Waite or just coincidence. Several of Maria's siblings came to NZ including King Page on the lady Jocelyn (who was incidentally witness to the marriage of John and Mary and also sponsor of their son Horace at baptism).

The relative who did the research in NZ of these Pages didn't see the link as they hadn't looked at the 1871 census in England

Just coincidences or the same family? If Mary and Maria are sisters it appears that Horace son of Mary married his cousin Polly daughter of Maria
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: newbe_nz on Tuesday 27 April 10 00:05 BST (UK)
Hi There

Horace was born 1876. Surname is spelt as BOLT not BOTT for some reason. Horace married 1914 to Polly Elizabeth BONNETT
This is on the NZSG marriage cd

1876/1580  BOLT Horace mother Mary father John

Marriage:
1914/5115 Polly Elizabeth  BONNETT to Horace BOTT

These are both from the link I gave in reply 4

Newbe
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: newbe_nz on Tuesday 27 April 10 00:14 BST (UK)
Both John and Mary BOTT are buried at Addington Cemetery here in Christchurch

http://librarydata.christchurch.org.nz/Cemeteries/

Horace died 1963 aged 87
Polly died 1945 aged 64


Have yet to find where they are buried

Newbe
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: kiwianna on Tuesday 27 April 10 00:31 BST (UK)
Definitely matches the info I have been passed on. I'm trying to confirm everything as other information has lots of errors in it.

This Mary Waite nee Page listed in census in England in 1871 also had a son Frederick Waite b approx 1866 and a George Waite b 1871

If she is the same one in the news report (1877)being beaten it sounds like 1 of these children may have come to NZ with her as 2 are listed and by date I think only Horace would have been born as the other child i have listed for her was a Central? Bott born 1878
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: newbe_nz on Tuesday 27 April 10 00:54 BST (UK)
Can't seer a birth for Central on our BDM website under BOTT or BOLT but have found a marriage for a Central BOLT to a Mary Jane ASHTON in 1906

Reg No: 1906/3222

There are also two children to this couple under the surname BOTT

Jack Sidney Valentine BOTT reg no: 1907/13226
Beatrice Ruby BOTT reg no. 1909/21188

Hope this helps

Newbe
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: newbe_nz on Tuesday 27 April 10 00:56 BST (UK)
Both Central and Mary Jane BOTT are buried at Ruru Lawn Cemetery in Christchurch.


Central died 1942 and Mary Jane died 1960

Burial details can be found at the link I gave for John and Mary BOTT
Can take a photo of the headstone if you like :D

Inscription reads:  BOTT    Central d 22 April 1942 a 62. Also his wife Mary Jane d 18 September 1960 a 76.

From  CD I have at home

Newbe
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: kiwianna on Tuesday 27 April 10 01:03 BST (UK)
Thanks for that info....that matches what i was told about Central although i didn't have a son listed for him so that's a new piece of info.

I'm in ChCH so can check out those burial sites which may shed some more light on things.

Still trying to find this Mary Waite arriving in NZ. I might have to check to see if she was married here to a Waite which would rule out the family link I am thinking there is.

Suspect a trip to the library and a look thru their records is going to be the way as I can't find any passenger lists online for this voyage
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: newbe_nz on Tuesday 27 April 10 01:06 BST (UK)
Your very welcome.

Maybe a trip to Christchurch Archives New Zealand office to see if they have a passenger list in their shipping records

A lovely wet day for us here in Christchurch as I also live here as well

Newbe
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: kiwianna on Tuesday 27 April 10 01:15 BST (UK)
Smiles...every time I look closer I open a another can of worms...lol

I have a book published by a relative on the Page family and there are a lot of holes in his information esp the older stuff in England as he followed the wrong line
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 27 April 10 01:22 BST (UK)

If she is the same one in the news report (1877)being beaten it sounds like 1 of these children may have come to NZ with her as 2 are listed and by date I think only Horace would have been born as the other child i have listed for her was a Central? Bott born 1878


Hi

There is a Frederick WAITE buried at Addington Cemetery - died 8 September 1897.

Unfortunately, NO age given on cemetery record ... and a search of BDM (online) also fails to find him under "WAITE / WAIT".     ::)

Re:  your 1871 census find  ... where in England have you found Mary (and her children) ?

~  Lu  
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: kiwianna on Tuesday 27 April 10 01:36 BST (UK)
Hi Lu

That sounds potentially like a matching Frederick...I guess the passengers lists may confirm who came out here which will help and i might take a trip to the Addington cemetary

I found Mary on the 1871 census Barton St Michael Gloucestershire with parents John Page(c1814) and Elizabeth(1810) also listed was her brother King Page.
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 27 April 10 02:13 BST (UK)
Hi kiwianna

Ah yes ... just after I'd posted, I spotted the "Page - Gloucester" in your names being researched ... and found Mary WAITE and Page family.   ;D

It does look to me though, that the grandsons listed (and presumably the children of Mary), were  >>

*   WAITE - Frederick - b. 1866 - Gloucester

*   WAITE - John - b. 1871 - Derbyshire

[I see you have this second child listed as "George" ?]

Hmm  ... not (yet) seeing a UK marriage for Mary PAGE to WAITE ?

And Mary PAGE is not with the family in 1861 ?

Will keep looking.

~  Lu
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 27 April 10 02:29 BST (UK)
This looks interesting ... from 1861.   :-\

1861

Grove Farm, Buckles Row, Charlton Kings, Gloucestershire

WATES - Benjamin - head - unmarried - 25 - farer (farmer ?) of 77 acres - b. Badgeworth, Gloucester

WATES - John - unmarr. - 22 - b. Badgeworth
PAGE - Mary - unmarr. - 21 - b 1840 - domestic servant - b. Gloucester

RG09/1794/79/15/Cheltenham/EDist. 5D

[WATES / WAITE ? ]   ???

~  Lu
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: kiwianna on Tuesday 27 April 10 02:37 BST (UK)
Hi Lu..yes my error in the George...definitely John

That does indeed look promising esp as  I had a possible listing on 1861 census for Mary as a servant at Charlton Kings which is that one...so am thinking along the same lines now
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: kiwianna on Tuesday 27 April 10 02:46 BST (UK)
I found an 1865 birth in Gloucester for a Francis John Frederick Page Waite and the dates seem to fit esp as the Francis is a family name
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 27 April 10 02:50 BST (UK)
"Lady Jocelyn" passenger list (1874-75) voyage to Lyttelton :

It seems that Archives NZ in Wellington have this.
[I'm a little surprised that it's not actually available online.]

Archives NZ in Christchurch, as Newbe pointed out, will likely also have a copy ... (if not, then try Canterbury Museum).

~   Lu
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 27 April 10 02:53 BST (UK)

I found an 1865 birth in Gloucester for a Francis John Frederick Page Waite and the dates seem to fit esp as the Francis is a family name


Oooh  ... that's quite a "handle" - isn't it ?

Yes, have to say it looks most promising.   :D

~  Lu
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: SPC on Tuesday 27 April 10 03:00 BST (UK)
This looks interesting ... from 1861.   :-\

1861

Grove Farm, Buckles Row, Charlton Kings, Gloucestershire

WATES - Benjamin - head - unmarried - 25 - farer (farmer ?) of 77 acres - b. Badgeworth, Gloucester

WATES - John - unmarr. - 22 - b. Badgeworth
PAGE - Mary - unmarr. - 21 - b 1840 - domestic servant - b. Gloucester

RG09/1794/79/15/Cheltenham/EDist. 5D

[WATES / WAITE ? ]   ???

~  Lu

Sorry to throw cold water on this.  In ancestry.com these individuals are transcribed as 'Coates' rather than 'Wates', and the on-line image of the census looks to me to be Coates also.




The Waites are very elusive in my experience.

Simon
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 27 April 10 03:13 BST (UK)
Cheers Simon.   :)

I was using another (perhaps not so reliable), source.   Certainly looks like "Coates".

[And you're of course, a WAITE researcher from way back. ]  ;)

~  Lu
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: SPC on Tuesday 27 April 10 03:19 BST (UK)
I am convinced they were all illiterate and their names were spelt whichever way the recorder felt like.  I have about eight variants in my line.

Simon
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: kiwianna on Tuesday 27 April 10 03:20 BST (UK)
It appears that the Mary on that census is very likely  the one I am researching and on 1871 census the spelling appears to be Waite even tho transcribed as Waste

Given that the writing is often hard to read there still may be a possibility so i will try and explore the Coates/Wates a little further on other census
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: SPC on Tuesday 27 April 10 03:28 BST (UK)
It appears that the Mary on that census is very likely  the one I am researching and on 1871 census the spelling appears to be Waite even tho transcribed as Waste

Given that the writing is often hard to read there still may be a possibility so i will try and explore the Coates/Wates a little further on other census

Hi kiwianna, here is an example of a 'W' from the same page:
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 27 April 10 03:28 BST (UK)

Hmm ... at FREE BMD ...    ???

DEATH - MAR - 1872

WAITE - John - aged 1

Reg'd  -  Gloucester   :'(

Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: SPC on Tuesday 27 April 10 03:36 BST (UK)

Hmm ... at FREE BMD ...    ???

DEATH - MAR - 1872

WAITE - John - aged 1

Reg'd  -  Gloucester   :'(



Interesting - Badgeworth is very close to Gloucester.

Simon
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: kiwianna on Tuesday 27 April 10 03:42 BST (UK)
The family has a close link to Badgeworth as it seems my line of pages stems from there c 1780
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: kiwianna on Tuesday 27 April 10 03:43 BST (UK)

Hmm ... at FREE BMD ...    ???

DEATH - MAR - 1872

WAITE - John - aged 1

Reg'd  -  Gloucester   :'(



That looks like a likely candidate
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: kiwianna on Sunday 06 June 10 07:20 BST (UK)
Further to this query

I have now discovered Mary Waite came to NZ in 1874 on the Merope with son Frederick

I would like to know what happened to Frederick..it is possible he took his stepfathers name of Bott. I can't find any trace of him other than on the passenger list for the Merope. He would have been born approx 1866.

I would also like to find Mary's marriage(nee Page) to ?Waite. It appears ? died as she was listed as a widow when she remarried in NZ in 1875
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 06 June 10 07:38 BST (UK)

I would like to know what happened to Frederick..it is possible he took his stepfathers name of Bott. I can't find any trace of him other than on the passenger list for the Merope. He would have been born approx 1866.


Hi

See the possibility for death of Frederick, earlier in this thread.

~    Lu
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 06 June 10 07:43 BST (UK)

I would also like to find Mary's marriage(nee Page) to ?Waite. It appears ? died as she was listed as a widow when she remarried in NZ in 1875


Probably best to ask for help with this on one of the England boards  .... maybe try "Gloucestershire" (if this was where Mary originated ?)

~  Lu
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: kiwianna on Sunday 06 June 10 07:53 BST (UK)
Excellent suggestion Lucy :)
Title: Re: Passenger List lady Joceyln
Post by: sgc on Thursday 24 June 10 09:40 BST (UK)
I have ancestors on this voyage surnamed "Ibell".  I don't have a passenger list, but I do have the surgeon's report, which I can check for any relevant names.  Here is some info extracted from it:-

Mary Ann Ibell was the first of  17 infants who died on the voyage and was buried at sea, she died only days after the ship sailed, of hydrocephalus ("water on the brain") .

The ships' surgeon's report of the voyage noted that "The adults were very healthy, the sickness being only amongst the children . . . It would be advisable not to send so many children in one ship.  A good many of these people were very poor and consequently had had very bad diet before coming on board, the children were unable to stand the trials of a sea voyage.

He was really a bit harsh and added "These people have no material love for their children and therefore do not pay sufficient attention to them  . . . . We had some of "Johnsons patent berths" in the married peoples' compartment.  These berths are undoubtedly the best, as they ensure great cleanliness and privacy on account of they folding up in the day time, no dirt can accumulate and more space is given for ventilation . . ."

However, it seems from the report of the schoolmaster on board the ship that this space was generally occupied as a school in the daytime, girls on one side, and boys on the other.  The schoolmaster reported that the compartment was "a place totally unnfit for a school", and complained that during the rainy weather "the people flocked to their berths rendering school impossible on those occasions".  Really, where else did he expect them to go?

The ship carried 655 people, of whom 554 were immigrants.  The newspaper report of the  voyage noted that these "are mostly labourers, from Warwickshire; they come out under the direction of a Mr Thomas Osbourne, one of  the delegates of the Agricultural Labourers Union; 232 have come out under his direction.  Of these, eleven children have died during the passage.  The greater portion are farm labourers, sawyers, waggoners, and shepherds."