Old Wooden Chest - RIC / IRA??

[Sinann]

You can search the pension records just by county and there is no variation there that could be Patrick BUT as far as I'm aware the pension records mainly refer to those who were involved in the Easter Rising ( I might need to be corrected there though).

Tara

Anyone who took part in the War of Independence could apply for a pension, if you went on to be part of the National Army you could apply when they first began, if you were anti treaty you couldn't apply until some time in the 40s I think it was.
The pension records online aren't compleat yet and are more focused on Easter 1916 but you will see lots of people who were never near Dublin during the War appearing there soon enough.

[Sinann]

Have you considered he was both.
A lot of RIC men were sympathisers.
Or if he was training men he may have been stationed in an abandoned RIC barracks (my grandfather was) from around 1922, he could have picked up the wallet or chest there. Although I'd expect some sort of crest or such like if it was RIC.

[Bellevue]

Have you considered he was both.

But then no record of him being in the RIC exists. Hence why I queried if people ever changed their names on entry. Or he could have trained but never finished and switched sides.....

[Sinann]

Yes I know. I'm 99% sure he was not a member of the RIC, I was jut giving it as an option really..

From his obituary
"led the volunteer branch in Clerihan and was responsible for the training of several hundred men. His residence was subjected to a number of raids by Black and Tan forces and his house had been the venue for sittings of the Republican courts"

He was supposed to have gone to Dublin for a time also (verified by his daughter) and was in Dublin for the visit of King George V in July 1911, this is what he said.

There's not much else really!

Even if he didn't apply for a pension, if he 'led the volunteer branch' than he should get a mention in someone's application, may not be online yet though.
The other names in that Dalton Witnesses Statement might be worth searching for.

[Bellevue]

Could the Commemorative Committee help ?

I will try and make contact. Thanks for the hint.

[Bellevue]

Even if he didn't apply for a pension, if he 'led the volunteer branch' than he should get a mention in someone's application, may not be online yet though.
The other names in that Dalton Witnesses Statement might be worth searching for.

Yes, the obit reads very well, you would image that some evidence exists about his involvement.

[Bellevue]

Would this be the organisation he was involved with? I presume this is different to the IRA and the activities around the turn of the 1920's. He would have been 40 in 1921, possibly a bit old.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Volunteers

I have added a further line from this obituary. How does it read to you? Does it mean he stopped any activities from 1913 and just farmed?
From his obituary
"At the heart of Mr. Cle ary was a young farmer but as a young man ventured into other occupations, returning to the land in the early years of the national movement for independence, 1912-13. He led the volunteer branch in Clerihan and was responsible for the training of several hundred men. His residence was subjected to a number of raids by Black and Tan forces and his house had been the venue for sittings of the Republican courts"

I have searched through most files relating to the Clonmel area for memberships during 1921-22 and his name appears no where. This leads me to believe he was not involved in the front line during this period. BUT from his obit he was still targeted by the Black & Tans (and they didn't arrive until 1920.
http://mspcsearch.militaryarchives.ie/brief.aspx

[Sinann]

Would this be the organisation he was involved with? I presume this is different to the IRA and the activities around the turn of the 1920's. He would have been 40 in 1921, possibly a bit old.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Volunteers

It's not different from the Old IRA it's part of the old IRA.

This begs the question are you sure that is Patrick's obit?

[Bellevue]

This begs the question are you sure that is Patrick's obit?

Yes, it is my great grandfathers obit. There is no uncertainly about this!