RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: gerryfarrell on Saturday 30 August 08 23:24 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
I took some photos over the wall of the Old Dalbeth Cemetery within St Peters to show the work that has been done and also how much remains to be done. Its a sorry sight but at least its a step in the right direction. I can make out some inscriptions however intend to revisit with my better camera and zoom lens when I will get closer and hopefully clearer pics of the inscriptions. Anyone wishing copies in higher resolution just pm me and I will mail them to you.
What really saddened me apart from knowing my GGrandfather and his 3 wives and 3 children are in there somewhere was to see the headstone of a fallen WW1 hero what a sad way to be remembered for all they suffered.
Seaman C.E. Campbell - Eternal rest grant onto to him O Lord - Gone but not forgotten.
PIC 1 - How it was - Old Dalbeth is the rectanular area covered by all the trees
PIC2 - Trees now gone.
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More pics of the Cemetery
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And again
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And again
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Last but certainly not least. The sad memorial to Seaman Campbell. R.I.P.
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Well done Gerry - this work should unearth lots of little mysteries - hopefully!!
Is the old part closed at the moment or was it just a case that you weren't near the entrance to it?
The following details are from the CWGC website for O.S., C. E. Campbell, the only CWGC burial in Old Dalbeth
Name: CAMPBELL
Initials: C E
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Ordinary Seaman
Regiment/Service: Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve
Unit Text: R.N.Depot (Crystal Palace)
Age: 19
Date of Death: 18/10/1918
Service No: Clyde Z/9903
Additional information: Son of Ellen Campbell, of 52, Rose St., Garnethill, Glasgow, and the late John Campbell.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: West side. 396.
Cemetery: GLASGOW (DALBETH) ROMAN CATHOLIC CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=665365
Anne
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Hi Anne,
No the site still remains closed to public access due to the unlevel ground and some insafe gravestones. The wall along the side was low enough to allow me to see over and take these photos.
Gerry
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Hi Gerry - these are amazing pictures, well done!
At least it looks like they are making some progress, hopefully it won't be too long before we can get in there, and hopefully find Peter's gravestone.
I used to walk through the old part every Sunday on my way to visit my grandmother's grave. It would be great to someday walk through it again!
Anne
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Hi all,
Sad to see even someones laundry hanging in the cemetery... could even see the closepins....Crookedtail
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I hadn't noticed the laundry, Thats actually in the back garden of a house whose boundry walls share that of the cemeteries.
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Fantastic photos Gerry.
What a shame the cemetery has been neglected for so many years.
Still there is always hope that one day it will be re-opened although it looks as
though it could take a long time.
Looks like G.g.g. macgunnigal will have to wait a little longer for me to find her
vault.
Does anyone know how many graves there are in this part?
How many years has it been closed?
Thanks look forward to seeing more photos
Well done.
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Annie,
The old part of Dalbeth has been closed for over 100yrs now with the exeption of a few interments in family plots in the early 1920's. I havent managed back down to see if yours is one of the wall vaults in the early part of what commonly called St Peters due to the weather but I have the details in my wee book and will as soon as I can
Gerry
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cheers Gerry. Although if the weather's as awful as it is here it mught be a
while before you can return!
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My husband and I went up to Old Dalbeth last october and were shocked at the state of it. We decided to go back up on saturday to see if any progress had been made. We jumped the wall and actually got in to look at the headstones which we also did last year. Yes some progress has been made but we are now wondering where all the broken and fallen headstones are. Have they just been dumped somewhere or have they been put somewhere for repair? My husband's GR.Gr.Gr Granfather, his sister,his son a Roman Catholic Priest and also his daughter are all buried there and we can find no trace. We have lair numbers but the Archdiocese don't want to know, they say they can't give us any info as we are not the lair owners, we can pay to become the lair owners but then we would be liable for the upkeep of the graves which at the moment is not viable. We are trying to contact someone at the Archdiocese to find out what is going to happen and if we get no answers we will take it further.
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My husband phoned a Mr McIntyre at Dalbeth Cemetery this morning, he is doing all the work off his own back with no financial help from the Archdiocese. He is going in to do the work when time and weather permits but is hoping to have the West Side grassed in the near future and the grass will be cut fortnightly. He fully understood our concerns and told us that the upturned graves were buried where they had fallen and all the granite stones will hopefully be uprighted if the Archdiocese provide the funds for this. We'll just have to wait and see what happens next.
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Can I thank you for posting the photograph of my Great Uncle's headstone on the web. My great uncle is Charles E Campbell. I did not know where he was buried and I found the picture of his headstone on the 90th anniverasry of his death, which is quite spooky. Charles whom I have never met was conscripted when he left school, St Aloysuis' College. He was in the communications section of the RN and died as a result of illness just before the war ended. The facts of his family details are incorrect, his father, my great grandfather died in 1920. I can only assume these details were recorded after 1920. Charles's older brother joined the HLI and was mentioned in dispatches and received the Military Cross. Many thanks again and it is so sad to see a young life ended and I can only imagine how his life would have turned out if there had been no war. I plan to visit his grave.
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Douglas,
This is what makes my efforts so worthwhile. I was so saddened to see the headstone in Old dalbeth as the graveyard had been in such a sorry state, These men gave up their lives for us and deserve far better rememberance than what Charles previously had. I'm very pleased to say that the resoration work at Dalbeth is going well and already you can see quite a difference. I have another thread which shows some pics of it in its current state.
If you send me your email address by private message I will send you the higher resolution pictures of the headstone.
Gerry
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Hi Gerry,
I have been watching the programmes on BBC 1 about celebrities finding out the stories of their ancestors that fought in WW1, what a terrible war and all those young men dead, but they did so we could be free. I personally would write to Glasgow district council about the neglect of the cemetry and even highlight it in a newspaper being the 90th anniversary you could get something done about it.
You must be proud of your Grandfather. I feel I know your name are you from Bellshill or Motherwell?
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Hi McGhee,
Yes I am originally from Motherwell now live in Bellshill.
The grave at Dalbeth of the soldier is not my relation but Douglas's. Although I will take you idea on board.
Gerry
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Its just I recognise your name did you go to Our Ladys High School did you know my cousin Paul Molloy
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I like the photos of the cemetery, now I can at least see what it looks like..apparently my grgrgr grandfather John Begly is buried there?? I always wondered about the cemetery and since I live in Ontairo and the cemetery is in Scotland, it's quite a distance to visit. If anyone every goes there again can someone have a look and see is there is a headstone?? he died around 1855??not sure if there is a stone though??? thanks Kindly Karen
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Hi Karan,
I pleased to say that the restoration work at old dalbeth is coming on and the place is looking much better simce this post started.
I have been back recently and photographed all the surviving headstones in Old Dalbeth. Sadly there isnt a great many of them and I've looked through the photos and can't see one with the name Begly on it.
Gerry
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Thank you for looking, I imagine they couldn't afford a stone anyways..after John died Isabella applied to poorhouse relief apparently. again thanks Karen
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Hi Karen,
If Isabella did apply for poor relief the record of her applicatiion may be in the Mitchel Library Archives. These records can reveal a lot of information as I have found out in my own search.
If you email me the details of John & Isabella (Dates / addresses where born etc) I will look in the Mitchel for you when I'm there next in a few weeks time.
Gerry
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Hi
I thank you very much, this is what i have..John Begly/Begley spealt various ways born abt 1810 Donegal Ireland s/o James Begley ?? married Isabella McAuthur Dec 8 1836 Neilston Renfew , Isabella was born in Scotland abt 1810?? d/o Alexander McArthur, their children are as follows James , Alexander (2nd great grandfather)John-Alex and John immigrated to Canada they showed up in the 1871 canadian federal census. and Archibald. From what I can find John died in June 1855 and Isabella and Archibald died the same year 1869.Hope this helps, and I thank you for taking your time to look... Karen
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I cant see a death record on SP for John around 1855
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Hi Gerry,
I stumbled across this and realised it must be 20 years since I took my late aunt to visit her grandparent's graves at Old Dalbeth. We found the chap in the lodge very helpful as he got the big register out and we found the lair numbers. However, the spot we tried to get at was totally overgrown with bushes(Rhoddies, I think). My aunt remembered going with her mum every Easter to Dalbeth. The children had a picnic while their mum, an artist, repainted the gold lettering. Do you have a photo with their headstone on it? They were Thomas Brown, 1845 to 1893 and Margaret McElwee Brown,1845 to 1896. Fingers crossed.
Moira
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HI Moira,
Sadly I dont see any headstone for the name Brown on the surviving ones. Many of the stones have either been damaged or unstable and as far as I'm aware as psrt of the restoration work they have been buried on the lair to allow the area to be returfed reday to allow public access back into this area of the graveyard.
Gerry
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Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I thought the stone might have been damaged by the rapid growth of Rhoddies but at leats now I know and won't make a special trip.
Happy New Year when it comes!
Moira
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I echo what many have said and thank you for posting these photos. My GX3 Grandfather is buried in there somewhere and paid 4 shillings for the privilege.
Very sad sight.
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Your welcome, although I don't view it as a sad sight rather pleasing to see that groundsmen of St Peter's have felt it important enough to try and restore it once again for us ancestors to view.
I have now transcribed all the inscriptions from the surviving stones should anyone wish to see if their relatives has survived.
See my other posting to view the surnames of these stones.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,352095.0.html
Gerry
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Hi Gerry, incredible photos of Old Dalbeth Cemetery ~ I was very surprised to see them ~ and elated to see the tranformation that is taking place there with so much dedication from the groundsmen in this massive clean~up . It is truly a piece of Glasgow History that I never thought I would see being restored to almost it's original state.
The maguire headstone # 58 can you give me any details ? the one we have in the old part is from 1859 Hugh McGuire a wee baby OR perhaps his parents Hugh & Margaret are also there.........all my best Flora
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Hi Flora,
Yeah its great to see it coming along, especially as the groundsmen are doing it when tey have spare time between duties and with no additiona financial help.
Sadly the Mcguire headstone referes to a former Archbishop who has passed.
58 Maguire Most Rev John Aloysius Maguire, Archbishop of Glasgow. 14 October 1920. Aged 69
Gerry
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Hi Gerry, thanks for checking out that info for me ~ I thought it might be a shot in the dark ! you are awesome........ It is just wonderful to see all the photos & obviously at one time a very impressive cemetery ~ big kudos to the groundsmen ! cheers Flora
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Your welcome Flora.
Annie, MI's PM'd to you as requested
Gerry
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It is good to see that they are taking the cemetery in hand. I remember being taken to visit the grave of relatives who died in 1960 and 1962 (buried in the new cemetery). The condition of that portion at points in the past has been so bad that it had been necessary to use a scythe in order to cut down grass in order to see the grave.
All in all the whole cemetery has been badly cared for to the point of simple neglect.
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Hi Folks, going up to Old Dalbeth this weekend and will take more photos to see how it is coming on...wouldnt it be great to get a Lair/Plot map so people can have a rough idea of where relatives are??
Ritchie.
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Hi Again, also going to the Mitchell to try and decipher some info that I have..Can anyone help me...My 3xGreat Grandfather bought a plot in Old Dalbeth in January 1851...it was 88 West Side and his son was buried there in the January...his other son who was a catholic priest was also buried there in January 1877. He died in 1866 and was buried in an opening lair (no lair number on the microfiche). How can I find out what that plot would be? Sharon at the Catholic Archdiocese is trying to find out.
cheers..
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Hi RitchieC,
I don't know if you've seen my other post regards Old Dalbeth Cemetery on here. However I have transcribed all the surviving headstones at Old Dalbeth Cemetery to try and assist people to see if their relations still remain. As you'll be aware the microfishe at the Mitchel is very hard to read and some years give more details about lairs than others.
If you PM me your relations names i will look and see if they are listed. There is a very large monumental stone against the wall which faces the newere part of the cemetery which lists preists who are buried in the cemetery so your relation could be amongst them.
Regards the lair plan sadly none exists with either the Arch Diocese or the catholic archives in Edinburgh. However I have spoken with the Edinburgh Archives and I am working with them to try and see if we can plan out a lair layout using the existing stones and the lair registers, once we complete this it will be made available.
Hope this helps
Gerry
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,352095.0.html
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Cheers Gerry, I have sent you a PM with some info...
Take care Ritchie.
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Hi Gerry, what a great collection of photos, you have done a truly remarkable job. I have just discovered that my 2 x Great Grandmother was buried in Dalbeth Cemetery in January 1856. Her name was Ann Mortimer McGeough, or possibly McGough. There was a name change at some time unknown.
As a child I lived in Carmyle, went to school in Mount Vernon and often played in Tollcross Park, but none of my family knew about Ann McGeough, amazing. I now live in Brisbane so am unable to investigate locally myself. I have read your posts and wonder if Ann's name appears on the list you have compiled from transcribing the headstones. I would greatly appreciate any information you may have.
Many thanks
Colin Gough.
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Hi Colin,
Sorry for taking so long to get back to you on this. Sadly there is no McGough names on any of the surviving stones.
Gerry
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Gerry
Thank you for replying. Are you aware of a source that would provide a record of burials, plot nos etc for Dalbeth Cemetery?
Regards
Colin Gough
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Hi Colin,
There are copies of the burial registers in the Mitchel Library in Glasgow although the micro film is really hard to read and i'm not sure if they would do a search for you.
There are 2 other sources which may help you better. The Graveyard is still under the ownership of The Arch Diocese of Glasgow at Clyde Street in Glasgow. The lady who takes to do with it is called Sharon and is very helpful. The original records are with the Scottish Catholic Archives in Edinburgh and as far as I know are still at Rome being restored for digitising. Contacts for both below -
Scottish Catholic Archives
Columba House
16 Drummond Place
Edinburgh EH3 6PL
Scotland
Telephone: 44 (0) 131 556 3661
Fax: 44 (0) 131 556 3661
EMail: archivists[at][/blue]scottishcatholicarchives.org.uk
ADOG
http://www.rcag.org.uk/index.html
196 Clyde Street Glasgow
G1 4JY
Tel: 0141 226 5898
Fax: 0141 225 2600
info[at][/blue]rcag.org.uk
(Replace [at] with @)
Gerry
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Thanks again Gerry
Colin Gough
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what a great thread......i hate to see a graveyard left to crumble.....
what happend at this graveyard?it looks like it has been wrecked by thugs...is this the case?
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Hi Paul,
No it was left unattended for nearly 100 years by the catholic Church who owns and operates it. It became overgrown with tree's and Ivy until a few years ago when the present groundsmen of the remaining cemetery St Peter's took it in hand. They have done a fabtastic job to get it even to where it is today working when they have space and with no additional help with funds etc.
Its a shame it was allowed to get to the condition it was in but its great to see it being looked after once again.
Gerry
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I have recently found a letter from my grandmother to Rt Rev Mgr John ritchie dated 2/2/1918 in which she refersto Dalbeth Cemetery as being the family burying-place, so I ws saddened to see the 2008 pictures of the state of disrepair. It is wonderful that the current groundman has done so much to restore it. I have looked at the list of names from headstones and cannot see either Farquharson or McConnell among them, my 2x great grandmother Jane (or Jean) McConnell died in 1853 and her husband John Bridge Farquharson died in 1876. I have had real problems tracing Jane McConnell's family and don't knwo for certain who her parents were I had hoped that finding her headstone might solve the problem but it looks unlikely now.
Many thanks
Fiona
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Hi Fiona,
I have looked at my records and dont have anything listed for those surnames either.
I have sent you a PM on the subject
Gerry
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I just came across these pictures as I googled research while looking for the Grave Yard that my ggg Grandmother Catherine Mullen was buried in. I was shocked, I wonder if she is somewhere in that mess. All the death record says is that she was buried in Dalbeth Cemetery in 1859. I just wonder if that means that she is in that section? Thank you for taking the pictures.
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Hi Montana,
Going by the year of her death I would say she will probably be buried in this section.
I've looked through the list of the gravestones and there is no stone listing her name.
The registers are at the Scottish catholic Archives and should be on Scotland's People later this year.
Gerry
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Hey! Thank you very much. I am sure the headstone is long gone, if she even got one.
Her Death record just said buiral place as Dalbeth. I did write to them. I was hoping to find her husband Francis as he has vanished. I noticed you were doing research on Elliotts? You wouldn't happen to have any born in Ireland do you? Thanks again for taking the time to photograph those pictures. Sure wish I could have gone there. Even thou it is in great need of repair, it gives us an insight into the past, which is treasure in it self.
Montana
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Your Welcome,
And yes the Elliots in my family were from Dublin
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All I know about mine is that John Elliott was born in Donegal, Ireland 1847 To James Elliott and Catherine Colquhoun. I don't know anything about James I only know Catherine's Parents. I am having trouble with anyone born in Ireland.
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HI,
I am veynewto this and very unsure that I am doing allth right things so willing to take constructive critisism - any help would b great.
Gerry Farrel listed a number of names from gravestones some time ago 2008/09. Among them was Carlin. Would like to have information on the three quoted. My Grandmother Died the year before I was born. I am named for her but live in New Zealand. She is buried in Dalbeth Cemetery and was joined by my grandfather. The Also had an infant daughter buried about 1923/24. I know my Grandmother was buried in re-burial ground and died December 31st /January 1st 1947/48. My randfather died March 1969. I wold be very grateful for any information.
carpe diem
Grace
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Have sent reply via private message
Gerry
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Hello to all chatters on the subject of St Peters, Dalbeth cemetery. I ony happened on this site looking for info on St Peters Dalbeth cemetery as I have now found where my Glasgow ancestors were almost all buried, thanks to Scotlands People website which now lists Catholic burials. What a shame I didn;t get the info a couple of months earlier as I was right there in Glasgow during June on holidays from Australia.
Does anyone know the rough dates of when the "old" cemetery was in use, my ancestors & relatives(Reillys, Milloys, McGowans) wer buried there from the 1860s through to the 1940s ? For relatives buried there from the 1920s on, the St Peters records show Sections & Divisions within the cemetery. Do you know where Division W, Sections 17 & 18 might be ?
So it seems St Peters Dalbeth was the main Catholic burial place for East Glasgow,
Any help appreciated
Sean
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Hi Sean,
The old part of the cemetery was certainly in use from around 1860. The last interment that I have found on a headstone is 1920 and that was a priest the main lairs seem to have stopped around the 1900 - 1905. I'm dont know actual dates of 1st and last years for the older part or the newer St Peter's part although I do know from gravestones I have passed that the newer part was in use at the ed of the 1800's.
The cemetery office has a map of the sections of the newer cemetery, but alas no plan exixts for the older part.
Gerry
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Hey Garry did you ever find out if we were related? LOL I am from the Eliott's in Ireland and Scotland. John and James Eliott
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Hi Montana,
I havent came across any James or John Elliotts in my tree so far. Its all been Benjamins and Matthews.
Gerry
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Thanks. I don't even know who their brothers were. I have not been able to find any. If you ever come acrossed any let me know.
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Does anyone know the rough dates of when the "old" cemetery was in use, my ancestors & relatives(Reillys, Milloys, McGowans) wer buried there from the 1860s through to the 1940s ? For relatives buried there from the 1920s on, the St Peters records show Sections & Divisions within the cemetery. Do you know where Division W, Sections 17 & 18 might be ?
I do not know where Division W is. However Sector 18 is where my great grandparents (died 1936 & 1960) and other more recently dead relatives are. To find it you enter the main new part of the cemetery from London Road. Shortly after entering the road splits ahead and right. You need to turn right over a bridge. Follow the road and do not leave it. Several yards after the bridge the road turns 90 degrees left around a corner.
The road runs parallel to a fence / shrubbery on your left. The fence / shrubbery are separated from the road by a row of single graves on your left. On your right the cemetery is much wider. Keep going for what seems like you are heading to the far end of the cemetery.
Sector 18 is on the right of the road you have been following. You will find it at the point that the cemetery seems to open up on both sides of the road. In other words there are several rows of graves on both sides of the road ~ rather than the single row of graves that you have had on your left since you crossed the bridge quite some distance behind you.
Sector 18 is quite a distance from London Road and is probably closer to the far boundary wall. Travelling at funeral speeds in a motor vehicle you are probably several minutes beyond the bridge. However, it is not right up against that far boundary as you are still a fair distance from that as well.
I can only hope that Sector 17 is next to Sector 18. However, I do not know for definite.
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From another of Gerry's posts here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,495487.0.html, there are some useful marked up maps (replies 3 and 4).
Monica :)
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Hi, this one's for Gerry. I posted on here in December 08 looking for my ancestors graves. Finally made it to St Peter's a couple of weeks ago and one of the ground staff took me straight to the lair. I was overwhelmed to find the stone in brilliant condition and just a little further up the incline where my late aunt and I were searching in the 1980s. This part of old St Peter's was under the curse of the Rhododendrons at that time and I felt like the prince in The Sleeping Beauty trying to hack my way through!
Two of the grave's occupants were babies and someone had left a wee teddy bear by the side of the headstone Very poignant.
I know it's a few years late but thought any success is worth shouting about!
Empty
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That's great news Empty, And I know the joy it brings to find not only a lost lair but a headstone marking it after a long search.
The groundsmen at St Peter's do a great job and are very dedicated to not only keeping it in good order but restoring the parts which had been left to neglect in previous years.
The older Dalbeth part where my interests lie are looking much better these days, The boundry wall has now been replaced with a new one due to the development of the Commonwealth Games redevelopment in the area, I just await to see if they are going to right the old headstones which have been laid down to allow this wall to be built.
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Thanks Gerry,
just another query - ever noticed how one leads to another.....?
On another site I was looking for my gt gt grandpa Alexander McElwee/ McElhinney because I cannot find a death for him (immortal, perhaps?) and one of the other site members said there was a McElhinney in Old Dalbeth at Number 31/ 61. Does that make any sense to you?
Moira
PS - is there an emoticon for 'numpty'?
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Moira, start a new thread with all you know about him and we can try to find him.
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The headstones with that surname refer to a
1/Catherine Doherty McElhinney.
2/ James Mc Elhinney and his wife Maryann
Mean anything to you?
Gerry
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Thanks, Gerry, but no. Turns out he was buried in St Peter's as Alexander McElwee, but doubtful there is a stone. Died in 1874 and I don't know how I missed him on SP. Must be going a bit dotty. What do I mean, going!
Moira
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Hi Gerry...great thread and thanks for doing such painstaking work to record the MIs. Can I ask if you have any Quinn or McCartney among them please?
Thanks,
Reayboy.
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Hi Gerry,I was over at the old Dalbeth cemetery as well as St Peter's looking for Gilmour graves and someone told me you had taken photos and info on ones that had existed in the old cemetery and one was Gilmour.Looking at the photos it appears they have taken some of the old stones out one of which was Gilmour.I wonder do you have any info about the Gilmour stone? Also,how would you find out where a certain section is in the new part? I asked at the cottage but I don't think the section given was actually where I should have been looking as I couldn't find the needed stone.I'm returning soon and would like to try to find it again.Thanks,Kim
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Hi Kim,
I photographed and transcribed the stones back in 2008, the only stone surviving then is still there which is the large monument for the priests who had passed -
Rev James Gilmour, 12 October 1877. Aged 32
Regards finding the section layout of St Peter's have a look at this post where Anne has shown the layout on a map of the cemeterty - http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,495487.0.html
Gerry
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Hi , I recently found out my great grandfather Daniel McCormick was buried in this cemetery on March 12th 1941 .... I wonder if his stone is still there .... ?
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He will be in the newer part of St Peters, I'm pretty sure if he had a stone it will still be there
Hi , I recently found out my great grandfather Daniel McCormick was buried in this cemetery on March 12th 1941 .... I wonder if his stone is still there .... ?
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Hi Gerry,thanks for getting back to me so quickly.James Gilmour was not the Gilmour I was looking for but may be related. I wonder could I ask another couple of questions about Old Dalbeth/St Peter's cemetery.Is there any comprehensive list of who was buried in the Old Dalbeth cemetery before St Peter's opened? Also,within the Old Dalbeth grounds, did there exist an common ground area the way a couple exist in the St Peter's section?Lastly,I looked at Anne's map layout of St Peter's cemetery and I'm a bit confused about the location of section #12.In one diagram, section 12 is shown as being next to section 14 on the right after the gate you would enter to go to the section of the cemetery that is where common ground and higher section numbers are.In the other diagram section 14 is through those gates and on right as you start up drive that bends towards left and other sections.Could you clarify this for me? I am bound and determined to locate my relation in section 12.He was buried in that section on 8 April 1908 in grave cousin(name unknown) had(number 2682 follows where says buried in grave cousin owns).He was interred section 12,division C,lair 66.Do you know if Old Dalbeth/St Peter's allow gravestones to be erected on common ground? Any help is so appreciated,Kim
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Hi Kim,
I'm afraid I'm not that familiar with St Peter's side of the cemetery. My interest in Old Dalbeth was to locate my great grandfathers grave location. There is a full list of the burial registers for Old Dalbeth & St Peters held in the Mitchell library on microfilm (some hard to read) however there is no surviving plan of the Old Dalbeth layout. I transcribed every surviving stone then using the burial dates on them went along to the Scottish Catholic Archives in Edinburgh to find as many lair no's as possible. This has allowed me to plot the cemetery layout and find the grave of my ggf. The common ground is the top section nearest the main road but no stone has ever been erected on it. Give Anne a message re St Peters she is very helpful an knowledgable. Also contact the archivist at the Scottish Catholic Archive for lair info as she is also very helpful, I don't have her email at hand but you will find it if you google them.
Gerry
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Gerry,again thank you so much.I will take your advice and contact the Scottish Catholic Archives and Anne.Want to get as much info before I venture over again next month.Thanks,Kim
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I was wondering if any of you kind folks know where my relative Helen Connell is buried in St. Peters? Her entry states she is in Lair 79, Section 4, Division E. She was buried there 4th Mar 1906. Unfortunately her Catholic entry at Scotlandspeople doesn't state when the Lair was opened. Her maiden name was Bon(n)ar and her 1st husband was William Allan Gilmour/2nd husband Peter Connell.
Helen's grandchild, William Gilmour, is buried in the same plot. He was laid to rest in 1892. His Catholic entry also gives no indication of when the liar was opened.
I am really hoping that Helen's foster child, Margaret Gilmour (real surname possibly Craig) is buried with her. Other than census returns I've nothing to take Margaret's life forward past her registering Helen's death in 1906. Margaret's DOB changes nearly every census (as did Helen's).
Many thanks for any help you can offer.
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I was at Old Dalbeth on Friday 8/11/13 looking for the grave of my g g g gfather Neil Mechan (Meechen / Meechan / Michan etc!). d 24/05/1857 buried Dalbeth Cemetery. No sign of his grave but here's some photos extracted from a phone video I took at the time - apologies for the quality.
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Have to admit I like the way the phone has made the photos look ::) ;) They look more like a watercolour that a photo and quite atmospheric!
All my Scottish crew are in there (Old & New cemeteries).
Monica
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All my Scottish crew are in there (Old & New cemeteries).
Monica
Shouldn't that be Old & New Testaments ;D
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If only...although I am sure a number of them thought they were key players ::)
Monica :)
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Do you know the lair number of your GGGfather? I maybe able to help you out with a the general area of his lair location as i have the lair numbers of all the surviving stones.
Gerry
I was at Old Dalbeth on Friday 8/11/13 looking for the grave of my g g g gfather Neil Mechan (Meechen / Meechan / Michan etc!). d 24/05/1857 buried Dalbeth Cemetery. No sign of his grave but here's some photos extracted from a phone video I took at the time - apologies for the quality.
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Hi Gerry, thank you. No, I just have the reference from his death registration. Next time I'm in Glasgow I'll go to the Mitchell, I note all the earlier comments about the difficulties with the microfiche. I'm not massively bothered about finding the exact piece of grass, it's probably good enough for me to have seen the burial ground and the setting. I'm more interested to try and find out further why he was buried there, in what was a very small cemetery at the time, when he died in Port Dundas, although I haven't yet located his usual home address. They were all navvies / boatmen so maybe he just died at work, although it was lung disease rather than an accident. Thanks for all the work you've done on this!
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Hi Peter,
The burial record for Neil "Mechan" doesn't list any reference to the area or ground in which he is buried. I should have realised that from the date as the burial books only started listing them from the late 1860's. It's more than likely that he was buried there as he was a Roman Catholic and the graveyard belonged to the RC Church as it does till this day. It maybe worth a look at the poor law in the Mitchell Library to see if there was an application for assistance to bury him.
If you PM me your email address I'll send you a copy of the burial book page.
Gerry
Hi Gerry, thank you. No, I just have the reference from his death registration. Next time I'm in Glasgow I'll go to the Mitchell, I note all the earlier comments about the difficulties with the microfiche. I'm not massively bothered about finding the exact piece of grass, it's probably good enough for me to have seen the burial ground and the setting. I'm more interested to try and find out further why he was buried there, in what was a very small cemetery at the time, when he died in Port Dundas, although I haven't yet located his usual home address. They were all navvies / boatmen so maybe he just died at work, although it was lung disease rather than an accident. Thanks for all the work you've done on this!
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Here's a map of the original layout of Old Dalbeth.
West and East sections are either side of the main pathway which leads to and circles the large monument at the middle bottom in the name of Byers, which still stands today.
I have some lair numbers and sections of the stones that still exist and with Gerry's help i reckon we can draw up a lair map of Old Dalbeth.
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7740/6rgh.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/6rgh.jpg/)
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PM me your email address Celticireland and I'll contact you regards your suggestion.
Gerry
Here's a map of the original layout of Old Dalbeth.
West and East sections are either side of the main pathway which leads to and circles the large monument at the middle bottom in the name of Byers, which still stands today.
I have some lair numbers and sections of the stones that still exist and with Gerry's help i reckon we can draw up a lair map of Old Dalbeth.
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7740/6rgh.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/6rgh.jpg/)
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Hi Gerry,
Wonder if you can help. My grandmother Elizabeth Johnstone age 22, who died in 1923, was buried in Dalbeth, Lair No. 149 Section 14W.(Have burial details). Also according to Scotlandspeople, in this lair are buried her "mother- in-law and husband", Francis Watters (died 1920) and Elizabeth Watters (died 1924).
However, confused family story, info apparently obtained via the cemetery/archives Dalbeth staff in 1996, says that grandmother Elizabeth Johnstone is buried with her sisterinlaw Elizabeth Anderson and husband Francis Anderson!! We even have a photo of this Anderson grave (with headstone) taken in 1996, convinced that grandmother was buried there.
Is there any way you can check to see if in fact Lair 149 Section 14W has a headstone on it with the names Francis Anderson and Elizabeth Anderson who died in 1959 and 1979 respectively ( i.e. too recent to have burial details online on Scotlandspeople)? Or are we definitely talking about two totally different graves? Hope this makes sense.
Being in Australia, I doubt that I will ever have the opportunity for a Glasgow visit. Would love to clarify this family mystery and would truly appreciate any help you could give.
Cheers
Maggie - in Adelaide South Australia.
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Sent you a pm Gerry.
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maggbill,
just in case Gerry can't/hasn't been able to visit Dalbeth I shall be there tomorrow, Thursday, doing another look-up so will see what I can find for you.
Davie
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Most kind of you Davie!! Thank you! Hoping that you can find something! Cheers
Maggs
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Hi, found the headstone today, will PM you later on. Have some photos too.
Davie
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two photos:
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Hi Davie,
Thank you so much for finding this information for me, and for sending these great photos to us. We did have one small photo, but yours are much better!! I also got your pm.
Can I ask, how you actually found the Anderson grave? Did you look for the specific Lair number I gave in the last post? (lair 149 section 14W)... Are the graves "numbered" in some way? Or was it just "pot luck" and lots of searching around for the name? I really want to be able to verify one way or another whether the "Anderson" grave with headstone and "Lair 149, section 14W" are one and the same grave. It will "lay to rest" and clarify a family confusion about who my grandmother Elizabeth Carrigan was buried with. I know for sure from the SP burial records that she was buried in lair 149 section 14W with her parents in law, whereas officials had told one of our family that she had been buried with the "Andersons" - her sister inlaw and husband in the grave with the headstone.
I may have to contact the archdiocesan records people if I can't find out what the lair number is for the Andersons grave... But may I thank you again for the effort you have gone to. Truly appreciated. Cheers !
Maggs
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Hi maggs
sorry I forgot to add the lair number. Yes it is Sec 14W lair 149. Sections in Dalbeth, or St Peter's, to give it it's proper name are all numbered and usually signposted. On most of the headstones are the lair number, engraved into the stone. So I found the correct section, 14W and working along the lines of stones came to 149 Anderson. On this particular stone the number is engraved on the bottom left of the main plinth which gives the name Anderson. Dalbeth is really quite a large cemetery so 'pot-luck' really would be 'pot-luck'. Out of all my relies they occupy about 4-5 lairs, all in different locations in the grounds.
I know from seeing the records, and talking to staff at the Archdioces? that not all burials were actually named in the books. At least 3 of mine are just dates of burials, and from that I worked out whose who. Don't forget SP records only go up to about 1955, but I still think there are probably the others you mentioned in that lair, just not named on the stone.
I will PM you again.
Davie
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hi
my Nan's dads grave is here ( i think) i know he died 16-04-1957 aged 55 at 47 Delburn Street Parkhead and was buried in dalbeth cemetery lair 844 section 17 Daniel Mcilwham
along with
Annie Crossan (sister in law) date of internment 11-10-32 age 25
Elizabeth Crossan Mcilwham (wife) date of internment 13-07-40 age 38
Edward Mcilwham (son) date of internment 01-09-47 age 18
Elizabeth Mcilwham (daughter) date of internment 01-07-52 age 3 months
Has anyone any information or photos please many thanks
Joanne
Modify message
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Hi Joanne
Hoping to get down to St Peter's (Dalbeth) in the next few days to do a look-up for a cousin in Canada, will see if I can find anything for you.
Davie
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Hi Davie
That would be great thank you very much i hope the weather holds out for you
thanks again
joanne
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Joanne
grabbed a quick visit to St Peter's. Found the lair and a stone for Edward, none of the others mentioned. It's a CWGC stone, here is a link to their site for some more info on Edward. I have some photos which I'll send later this evening.
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx?cpage=13&sort=name&order=asc
once on the page, click on Edward's name for more info/certificate, also noticed they have the name as McIlwhan, perhaps a misprint in your typing?
Davie
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Joanne
As promised, some photos. Enjoy
Davie
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hi davie
i looked up the link on edwars mcilwhan and it all fits in it is my nans brother on her birth cert is it spelt mcilwham im 100% sure its her brother just miss spelling somewhere along the lines or done for a reason have just double checked dates etc and edwars parents are the same as my nans
daniel and elizabeth mcilwham
my Nan's dads grave is here ( i think) i know he died 16-04-1957 aged 55 at 47 Delburn Street Parkhead and was buried in dalbeth cemetery lair 844 section 17 Daniel Mcilwham
along with
Annie Crossan (sister in law) date of internment 11-10-32 age 25
Elizabeth Crossan Mcilwham (wife) date of internment 13-07-40 age 38
Edward Mcilwham (son) date of internment 01-09-47 age 18
Elizabeth Mcilwham (daughter) date of internment 01-07-52 age 3 months
do you think that they are all in thesam plot ?
thanks again
joanne
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Joanne
yes, more than likely. Not all burials had/could afford a stone. Out of all my relatives in Dalbeth, there is only one headstone, and that was erected quite recently by my sister.
To be sure you could look-up the Catholic burials on Scotlands People site. It is pay per view, but it's almost certainly them.
As for the spelling it could be a mis-spelling at the time of registration, or as you say on purpose.
Davie
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searched the catholic burial records on Scotlands people site against the name Furey and all the entries came up as being Dalbeth St Peter's and Old Dalbeth, compared them to death records I already had and singled out the oldest two generations (Gr Gr Grandparents and Gr Grandparents) printed off the entries and headed up to the cemetery yesterday to try source the lairs, I prepared myself for the inevitability that there would be no markers or stones there. I figured on a combination of no money in those times to erect a monument and that due to the passage of time and the overgrown nature of the cemetery in the past. So anyway spoke to one of the groundskeepers and he helpfully showed me roughly where the graves would have been, (Section 9 Centre), using the remaining headstones we worked our way to where the lairs were and lo and behold there was a stone commemorating my Gr Gr Grandparents and two of their children, brilliant I thought better than I expected, so we counted from there to the other lair where there was another stone (facing the opposite direction though) but luck was obviously on my side as this was indeed the stone I was looking for, two for two. Spurred on I got some more details from the Scotlands people site and now have another lair to track down but this time instead of a number for the section it has letters looks like it could be J A or J H. Anyone got any ideas, also do you know if the stones can be retouched by the monumental masons at the gate for a fee?
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Hi Brian
so glad to hear of your success. Anyway I've had a look at the map I have drafted of the site and can't find anything that resembles JH or JA, how about 1a? That's just to the right as you go down the main drive. Failing that as you've already found out the staff are really helpful so I'm sure they'll put you right.
As for renovating the stone I'm sure that the Mason at the gate can help out too.
Davie
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Hi Davie, See the picture attached, Could be 3A possibly,
Should probably be back up to Glasgow before Christmas so will have another go then
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certainly looks like 3a to me. That's behind the office and runs along the edge of the burn.
Davie
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Davie, I follow these posts and really enjoy seeing what comes up over time.
Brian, welcome to RootsChat :) Wow, you certainly had a successful visit. Certainly the Masons on site will help. My mother arranged to have my father's gravestone made beautiful again two years ago this way. They did a fantastic job and also sent photos etc (we are no longer local).
I am going to try to add a map that has been included before. Not sure who of the Dalbeth specialist crew included it here on RC originally, but I saved it in my own records (could well already be on this orignal thread...haven't checked back!).
Monica
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Hi Monica
thanks for the mention. I see you attached the map I put together, I tried to add it earlier but for some reason the file was corrupt. Thanks again, should help Brian when he's back at Dalbeth.
Davie
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So it was yours, Davie ;) Knew someone had put it together, so glad I added now again and will mark it up as yours on my file too.
Monica
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many thanks for the map, I went back up to Dalbeth on Christmas Eve and found the 3rd lair I was looking for complete with stone thats 3 for 3. I have also contacted Sharon Scullion at the Archdiocese for a bit more information. Thanks again for all the help from everybody
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joanne
My mum is Elizabeth Agnes mcilwham, sisters Bridie, Ann and brothers Tommy Frank Danny Eddie. Please contact me
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Sacredspirit...Joanne
Don't know if you will read this but really would love to chat as I think you may be Bridies grand daughter, trying to work out how we all fit
My mum recently through facebook found her half sister Mary mcilwham McGovern
Lorraine
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Hello,
I'm new to the site and have enjoyed reading many of the various threads so far.
I'm a McGuire and have been doing a lot of family research in recent years. I have recently discovered my McGuire and McGrory/McGroary relatives have two graves in Old Dalbeth and was hoping to visit the old graveyard later this week to try and locate the place where they are buried. Some great work has already gone in to listing those named on headstones and I really appreciate those who have put names, pics, maps etc on here for others to see.
The main grave I'm looking for is West 255 with 257 also likely to have my ancestors buried there. I received the list below from the archdiocese of Glasgow but none of the names seem to correspond with those listed on this topic thread. If anyone is able to provide any advice on how best to locate these graves that would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks,
Paul.
(http://i61.tinypic.com/5501zr.jpg)
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Hi Paul
I think Gerry Farrell is your man to talk to. He seems to do a lot in Old Dalbeth so should be able to give some advice. As it's OD there may not be any headstones though as not many survived. Good luck
Davie
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Hi Paul
I think Gerry Farrell is your man to talk to. He seems to do a lot in Old Dalbeth so should be able to give some advice. As it's OD there may not be any headstones though as not many survived. Good luck
Davie
Hi Davie,
Thanks for your reply. Not sure I can send a PM at present so hopefully Gerry will see my request and get in touch. I don't expect we'll locate any headstone but just to be able to find a location where the grave is would be great.
Regards,
Paul.
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Hi Gerry
I would be interested in ANY info on the Donnelly names and would appreciate photos.
Thx ChWi