Those confusing Chorleys again!

[Scawfell Dyke]

The Elizabeth who married Bainbridge was definitely related, since John was her bondsman. They had a son Richard Bainbridge (1802) who lived in Distington.  They should all have been one family, the way they suddenly sprang up in Muncaster. I couldn't see any of their baptisms on the IGI, unless Elizabeth in Kendal (1778) is the right one, though she was said to be 21 in 1797. Name Richard is recorded in Kendal, so I think this must be where they came from.

Stephen

[LizzieW]

in fact Richard Chorley (who had a child baptised 4 months before John Chorley was baptised) seems to have married a Tyson.

That was misleading, I meant Richard Chorley who had a child baptised 4 months before Dorothy Chorley (daughter of Dorothy) was baptised in 1806.

Old John (aged "60"/Dorothy Gardner aged 35) on the Lancashire RO site (1805). Abode transcribed as Westham, Muncaster, which will mean Hestholm(e), as in Low H, where Elizabeth was living in 1797 (bonds again - John Chorley her bondsman). Low Hestholme was also the place where Dorothy was born.

 

As John was 60 or thereabouts in 1805, he must have been born about 1745.  However, I cannot find any John Chorleys born around 1745 in Kendal on Familysearch.  There is one of a similar age born in Goosnargh which is near Preston.  There are Chorley children, James, Richard, Thomas, Grace and Jane, all born to a William Chorley and Agnes in Kendal.  Thomas was baptised in 1745, so whether Thomas is John or John comes from somewhere else I have no idea.

Also, I cannot find a birth/baptism for a Dorothy Gardner which you say was in Low Westholme.  On the marriage bond it states that John Chorley's place of abode was Westham, Muncaster, but it states that Dorothy's place of abode was Ulverston.  There is only one baptism that I can find for a Dorothy Gardner and that was in Dalton in Furness in 1783 to parents John Gardner and Jane.  This more or less ties in with Dorothy Chorley who died and was buried in 1837 being aged "55" but does not tie in with Dorothy Gardner who was apparently 35 in 1805, making her birth about 1770.  Why would any woman, not least a spinster, add about 13 years to her age, especially if she was marrying a man of 60?  Oddly, there is a Sarah Chorley baptised in 1770 to the same parents.  So now I've got two people John Chorley and Dorothy Gardner who married, but two others Thomas Chorley and Sarah Gardner who fit the ages.   Surely they didn't both change their names.

The Elizabeth who married Bainbridge was definitely related, since John was her bondsman.

This was in 1797, when she was supposed to be 21 (birth abt 1776) I would guess a baptism in 1778 is possible, so I guess as John Chorley was 60 in 1805, he was probably Elizabeth's father.

Lizzie

[Scawfell Dyke]

I was referring to the Richard who appears in Muncaster at the same time as John. The name Richard occurs in Kendal and Muncaster. Chorleys are not recorded anywhere around this area before 1797, so these people must be connected.

It seems to me there must be Kendal records missing from the IGI. Take that Edward: the nearest given on the IGI was born in Liverpool in 1766. That Elizabeth in Kendal was daughter of John and Mary; a John married Mary Thompson in 1769. A lot of Ulverston records are also missed off.

I have no idea who Dorothy Gardner was (looked for her last week). I've looked at what I said about that. I said John was living at Low Hestholme (in Muncaster), and the Lancashire RO people misread it as Westham. Dorothy Chorley was born at Low Hestholme in 1806.

Stephen

[LizzieW]

Sorry, I got confused with the Dorothys.  Why did our ancestors insist on giving their children their names.   Yes, of course, Dorothy Chorley who married Jonathan Middleton was born in the  Muncaster area.

I went to Barrow record office a couple of years ago - en route to Scotland, a rather long winded detour - and the staff were really helpful.  Of course, at the time I was looking for another branch of my family and only had one day there.  We're thinking of holidaying in the Lake District next year, so will be able to do some more searching up there.

Thanks for all your help to date.

Lizzie

[Scawfell Dyke]

I'll be paying a visit to the Whitehaven office later today. Will be looking at Gosforth and Drigg for any Nobles I might have missed. As many as 7 (Gosforth branch) are unaccounted for. I've wondered if they all died young, but their burials weren't recorded.

I'll keep an eye out for any John Chorleys, or anything else interesting.

Stephen

[LizzieW]

Thank you Stephen, I'll be interested in anything you find.

Lizzie

[Scawfell Dyke]

I found John's burial at Egremont: John Chorley, Town, 84, 4 Jul 1816.

These are Muncaster marriages:


John Bainbridge, H, & Elizabeth Chorley
(Wm. Thompson, Elizabeth Troughton)                                    19 Nov 1797

Richard Chorley, Husbandman & Bella Tyson
(Edward Biby, Edward Chorley)                                                25 May 1801

Edward C, 25, Husbandman, Drigg & Elizabeth Troughton, 32.
(John Taylor, Benjamin Bibby, Mary Grave)                                14 Nov 1805

William C, 20, H, & Mary Taylor, 27.
(Margaret Braithwaite, John Bainbridge)                                   18 May 1807

Burials:
Francis Chorley, husbandman, of Low Hestholme. 14 Aug 1800
Rebecca, wife of John C, farmer, Low Hm, 73. May 5/May 7 1803
Elizabeth C, widow, lodger, LHm, 67. Mar 15/17 1806
Richard C, labourer, Saltcoates, 31. Sep 19/21 1810
Francis, son of Wm. & Mary C, labourer, of Chappels, 1. Jul 20/21 1811
Isabella C, Ravenglass, 2. Nov 14 1815.

John's marriage is in the marriage bonds:
John Chorley, 26, Yeoman, Fidler Haw, Cartmel &
  Rebekah Banks, 30, Cark, Cartmel. 23/11/1771

So you now have another confusing Chorley to add to the list: Francis. IGI batches for Cartmel stop at 1723, while LancsOPC has nothing before 1800s, so you'll probably have to pay a visit to Barrow.

Stephen

[LizzieW]

Stephen

That's amazing.  I'll have to look carefully at all the info you've found, but at least you've solved the mystery of John Chorley.   Once you found the record showing he was 60 when he married Dorothy, it seemed likely that he'd died by the time she got together with Joseph Noble, some 15 years after their marriage.  I wonder why he married her at 60, normally husbands want a wife to look after young children when their wife dies, but I imagine the death you found of Rebecca aged 73 was of his first wife and there's no way she would have had young children when she died.

I can see he might have wanted a housekeeper, but that's no reason to marry someone.

I imagine that amongst the younger Chorleys, Richard, Elizabeth, Edward and William, one or two are John & Rebecca Chorley's children.  Maybe Francis who died in 1800 is too.  You don't give his age at burial, but it could be that he was only in his mid 20s-30s when he died.

Thank you once again for all your searching.

Lizzie

[LizzieW]

John's marriage is in the marriage bonds:
John Chorley, 26, Yeoman, Fidler Haw, Cartmel &
Rebekah Banks, 30, Cark, Cartmel. 23/11/1771

Giving Rebekah a date of birth of about 1740/41 and John a date of birth of about 1745.

Now when John re-married in 1805 his age was given as 60, which matches his date of birth, but his age at death 84 in 1816 gives him a date of birth of about 1732.

Similarly, Rebekah's age at death in 1803 was given as 73, giving a date of birth of about 1730.

It seems they both knocked about 10 years of their birth year when they married - doesn't make much sense, but it also means that John would have been 70 when he married Dorothy and not 60 as per the marriage bond.

If Rebekah was really nearly 40 when she married, the chances are she had been married previously, even if her age was 30 it's possible John was her 2nd husband.

Lizzie