Doyle/Byrne/O'Brien

[OB]

My Great grandmother, Anna (Doyle) married Laurence Byrne and had three children prior to 1862. Two sons: Laurence (b: 1852) and James M Byrne (b: june 1861); the daughter's name remains  unknown. When mr. Byrne died, Anna (Doyle) Byrne married James O'Brien (my great grandfather). Anna had three more children with Mr. O'Brien, all boys; one was my grandfather Peter J. O'Brien (b: July 1864) .  All 6 children were born in Ireland in wicklow or dublin counties.

Anna (Doyle) and Mr. O'Brien along with "her" 6 children (3 Bryne from 1st marriage & 3 O'Brien children from 2nd marriage) came to United States reportedly between 1868 and 1872. She settled in New York state.

Mr O'Brien, as in James, Anna's 2nd  husband died a few years after arriving in the U.S (c 1875).  He reportedly was a farmer and owned land in New York state.

James M. Byrne (d: 1930) & Peter J O'Brien (d:1943) are 1/2 brothers via their mother Anna (Doyle). These two boys lived as "adults" in the Madison, Wisconson area. Their mother (Anna) and the one sister and two brothers (both O'Brien's) continued their lives in New York state.

Jame's older brother Laurence was the 1st to move to Wisconsin as an adult. He was followed by James soon thereafter. There they bought 120 acres of land together in the mid to late 1880's, as is noted on a 1890 Fitchburg township plat map (dane County). This farm land remained in the Byrne family for better than 100 years; they sold it in the late 1990's.

Laurence, James M Byrne & Peter J. O'Brien's brother eventually left the United States and returned to Ireland. He died on October 11, 1896. Decendants of James M. Byrne have the original copy of this deathbed last will and testament. He died in "Ballinagappogue, Aughrim, county Wicklow, Ireland".

The importance of where and when Laurence died, since he returned to ireland, is that no modern day "Byrne" or "O'Brien" family member from Wisconsin know whatever happened to the New York Byrne & O'Brien family members, nor where exactly "we" collectively came from in Ireland.

So my thought has been to follow "laurence byrne" back to ireland thinking he was returning to an area familiar to him when he was a child--recalling that he was born in 1852--which then made him 16 to 20 years old when the family immigrated.

I need contacts for Aughrim area Doyle, Byrne and or O'Brien family.

trust me, that was the short version!

[shanew147]

I'm not entirely clear of exactly what details you are trying to find in Ireland, but since the surnames Doyle and Byrne/O'Byrne are very common in Co. Wicklow maybe a starting point would be to try to find the death of Laurence to give you a detailed location. Based on the details you give there's a fairly good match for his death of the Irish Civil BMD Index :

 Name: Laurence Byrne
 Registration District: Rathdrum
 Event Type: Death
 Quarter and Year: Oct - Dec 1896
 Age (at Death): 44  (est birth Year: 1852)
 Volume : 2 /  Page : 693

A death cert would give a few more details - e.g actual address, if he was married or single, his occupation etc. Note that he lived in a rural area the address could just be the townland.

The registration district of Rathdrum (mentioned on the death registration above) includes quite a large area of the county and includes towns such as Rathdrum, Aughrim, Arklow, Rathnew and Wicklow (town). One of the townlands in the district is named Ballinagappoge and this appears modern google maps, and is located about 9km to the north west of the town of Aughrim  - see : Aughrim to Ballinagappoge

See the townland database at www.thecore.com/seanruad   and Introduction to Irish Records



Shane

[shanew147]

There's just three households listed in the townland of Ballinagappoge on the 1901 ceneus, and one of them is a Byrne family (the others are Harney and Hagan) :

  Byrne, Ballinagappoge - 1901

some of the same Byrne family appear in the same location on the 1911 census :

  Byrne, Ballinagappoge - 1911

Several Byrne households are listed in the townland on Griffith's valuation :

  Ballingappoge - 1854 

There are several entries in the townland for the name Laurence...it is possible that he leased several properties  in the area, or there was more than one person by that name.



Shane

[OB]

Shane, thank you!  This "IS" the Laurence Byrne from my family. I just came across the document you mentiuoned last week. What i learned from this death certificate was that he was born in 1852. Prior to that I speculated 1856 +/-.

When Laurence died on 11 Oct 1896, he and his wife Mary Anne, along with their three (3) children: John (c:1891), Mary Ellen (c 1894) and Laurence (c 1896) were living at house #2, ballinagappgogue.

Mary Anne and the children were still living at this location according to the 1901 and 1911 census.

How do I find Mary Anne's maiden name?

How do i find out what happened to her children?

Thanks so much for any additional leads.

[shanew147]

....
What i learned from this death certificate was that he was born in 1852. Prior to that I speculated 1856 +/-....
....
How do I find Mary Anne's maiden name?
....
How do i find out what happened to her children?
...

to find Mary Ann's maiden name I'd start by searching for a birth cert for one of the children first. Laurence or Mary Ellen being youngest are probably the best bet as their 1901 ages are likely most accurate - I'll have a look at the Irish Civil BMD index and see if anything stands out (Byrne is a common name so there could be a few possible matches).

Once you have that it should be possible to find their marriage, which would confirm the connections.

I'd be very careful about taking 1852 as Laurance's exact birth year - death certs can be incorrect with regard to age.

There's no simple way to find out what happened the children other than checking for marriages etc in the same area (and hoping they didn't move too far.).


Shane

[shanew147]

There are discrepancies with both children's ages between the two census returns but assuming that they were both born in the same general area then the two best matches that I see for the births  (assuming Mary Ellen was registered with that full name and not just as Mary..) on the BMD Index are :

 Name: Laurence Byrne
 Registration District: Rathdrum
 Event Type: Birth
 Quarter and Year: Jan - Mar 1894
 Volume : 2 / Page : 856

 Name: Mary Ellen Byrne
 Registration District: Rathdrum
 Event Type: Birth
 Quarter and Year: Jul - Sep 1892
 Volume : 2 / Page : 807

(any births in Ballinagappoge should be registered in the district of Rathdrum)


Shane

[OB]

Shane, again, many thanks. i didn't know that "births" would be registered in Rathdrum. Things are done quite a bit differently than here in the U.S.; thus its hard to figure out all the relationships, townland, parish, etc....

I saw as you did that the 1901 and 1911 census have different "ages"..seems strange, but again i don't know the political or cultural things that might cause that kind of discrepancy on the census. From what I "think", Mary Anne "wrote" in the information on the census forms and signed them....and she indicated she knows how to read and write so i "assume" that she would know those dates very specifically.

But with all that said, Mary Anne and the kids are "Laurence's" wife and offspring. Still living where he left them when he died.

You noted, again as I recently learned, that the 1854 "Griffiths valuation report" has Laurence Byrne living at this same Ballinagappogue address then.  This is Laurence's father--the 1st husband of Anna (Doyle).

What I'm thinking is that Laurence (Senior) and his wife Anna (Doyle) lived there, had Laurence (junior) c 1852, then Laurence senior died around 1861; Anna married her 2nd husband, James O'Brien around 1863.  Did he move in with her on the Byrne family farm?   Laurence the III (son of the junior) returned to this same house from America c 1890 and died there in 1896. Does this make this a likely farm property that stayed in the byrne family...even when Anna married her 2nd husband?
They (Anna and James O'Brien had three more kids, all O'Brien's including my great great grandfather Peter J. O'Brien in July 1864.

[Veronica Byrne]

Hello, my name is Veronica Byrne and it is with great interest that I have just read your posts. I am the great grand daughter of the Laurence Byrne you speak of as he was my father's (also Laurence) grandfather. The family still reside in Wicklow. I would be more than happy to fill you in on the missing history of our family.

[sarah]

Hi Veronica,

Welcome to RootsChat  At the moment OB's notification are not working, I think that I may have managed to send a message so hope to see OB soon.

Regards

Sarah